Heathen Q&A

[Mercian]

Re: Heathen Q&A

Could someone explain about 'Frith' please.

[magusphredde]

http://www.englatheod.org/frith.htm

http://www.friggasweb.org/frith.html

[Crimson Horizons]

http://www.englatheod.org/frith.htm

http://www.friggasweb.org/frith.html

[/quote]

[Illumin]

Re: Heathen Q&A

Can I get an opinion on the Poetic Edda translation by, Olive Bray? Is this an acceptable translation, or is there another that I should look for?

[Nordri]

Re: Heathen Q&A

It's a good and well recognised translation. I find Larrington's to be good for a newcomer, other translations such as Hollander, Thorpe, Auden & Taylor and Bellows are all very good.

Here is a link to Bray's translation: http://www.pitt.edu/~dash/havamal.html#wanderers

[Thjoth]

Re: Heathen Q&A

We also predominately use the Chisholm translation in our discussions here: http://www.woodharrow.com/images/ChisholmEdda.pdf

I've always been a little iffy on the Thorpe translation, just because he tries to make the English as pretty as possible, so some of the passages may not be translated exactly right due to this. I can't say for sure, though, as I don't know Old Norse.

[Illumin]

Re: Heathen Q&A

I appreciate the help, thank you both.

[Gunnarr]

Re: Heathen Q&A

We also predominately use the Chisholm translation in our discussions here: http://www.woodharrow.com/images/ChisholmEdda.pdf

I've always been a little iffy on the Thorpe translation, just because he tries to make the English as pretty as possible, so some of the passages may not be translated exactly right due to this. I can't say for sure, though, as I don't know Old Norse.

Thorpes translation is iffy, based on what?
May not be translated correctly, based on what?
We use Chisholms, I dont!

Can you please give verifiable sources for your statements.

Modi

[Thjoth]

Re: Heathen Q&A

Thorpes translation is iffy, based on what?
May not be translated correctly, based on what?
We use Chisholms, I dont!

Can you please give verifiable sources for your statements.

Modi

Any time you translate a poetic work and try to keep its meter and rhyming structure in the target language, you have to sacrifice a literal translation for a more artistic translation. That's just a fact. By doing this, the underlying tone of the piece may be very slightly changed. If you look at Bray or Chisholm, they do more literal translations. That's why I, personally, feel a little iffy on Thorpes' translation.

And since you haven't been around long enough to have seen any of our Edda discussions, I'll forgive you for not knowing this, but whenever we do Edda discussions we use the Chisholm translation. Trust me, I'm the one that does the Edda discussions, and that's what I copy-paste into the discussion posts. CH and I, as well as Maythe and ThorsSon, use the Chisholm as our base translation, but we use all the others for clarification as well, and that's the "we" I'm talking about, since the three of us (minus ThorsSon because he's not around so much) are the only ones who really participate in the verse-by-verse Edda discussions with any regularity, as everyone else that attempts it seems to drop off the face of the earth once it gets started in earnest.

[Gunnarr]

Re: Heathen Q&A

So your verifiable sources are ?
How come you have 10 rep power, have you mods given yourselves them why?

Modi

[Juniper]

Re: Heathen Q&A

How come you have 10 rep power, have you mods given yourselves them why?
Modi

Not relevant to the topic.

[Thjoth]

Re: Heathen Q&A

So your verifiable sources are ?
How come you have 10 rep power, have you mods given yourselves them why?

Modi

Heh, color me embarrassed, but I seem to have confused Thorpe with Larrington :P Whoops xD

LARRINGTON is the one that deviates from the original text a lot. THORPE I just couldn't get into the style of the translation as a personal preference. Larrington, on the other hand, likes to fully translate all the Norse names with whatever translation Larrington likes, even if there are multiple translations, which also kind of balls up the text. Larrington also likes to replace Norse concepts with ones from Classical literature (think the Iliad, Odyssey, and so on) that kind of generally resemble one another, which is something that I probably don't need to tell you is a bad idea. I mean, sure, it makes it easier to read, but it messes with the underlying meanings and attitude of the text like crazy, and any gains in readability here are already defeated by the full translation of all the names.

As for the rep thing, I really don't know, but like Juni said, it's OT for this thread.

[Gunnarr]

Re: Heathen Q&A

Ok where in Larringtons translation does she do this, can you give a few examples with page numbers as it is an interesting post but is still sounding slightly UPG.

Modi

[Thjoth]

Re: Heathen Q&A

Ok where in Larringtons translation does she do this, can you give a few examples with page numbers as it is an interesting post but is still sounding slightly UPG.

Modi

Well first is strophe 9 in Voluspa:

Bellows:
9. Then sought the gods | their assembly-seats,
The holy ones, | and council held,
To find who should raise | the race of dwarfs
Out of Brimir's blood | and the legs of Blain.

Chisholm:Larrington:
9: Then all the Powers went to the thrones of fate,
the sarosanct gods, and considered this:
who should form the lord of the dwarfs
out of Brimir's blood and from Blain's limbs?

Original:

Also from Voluspa, 14-16:

Bellows:
14. The race of the dwarfs | in Dvalin's throng
Down to Lofar | the list must I tell;
The rocks they left, | and through wet lands
They sought a home | in the fields of sand.

15. There were Draupnir | and Dolgthrasir,
Hor, Haugspori, | Hlevang, Gloin,
Dori, Ori, | Duf, Andvari,
Skirfir, Virfir, | Skafith, Ai.

16. Alf and Yngvi, | Eikinskjaldi,
Fjalar and Frosti, | Fith and Ginnar;
So for all time | shall the tale be known,
The list of all | the forbears of Lofar.

Chisholm:Larrington:

14: Time it is to tally up the dwarfs in Dvalin's lineage,
the people of Lofar
those who sought out from the stony halls
the dwelling of Loamfield on Iorovellir.

15: There were Draupnir and Dolgthrasir,
Greyhair, Mound-river, Lee-plain, Glow,
Skirvir, Virvir, Skafid, and Great-Grandfather.

16: Elf and Yngvi, Oakenshield,
Fialar and Frosty, Finn and Betrayer;
They'll be remembered while mankind endures,
the long tally of ancestors of Lofar.

Original:

There's seriously too much to list. Orlog is regularly translated as "fate", as is Wyrd; the regin are called "strong and loving" when there's no trace of the word "loving" in the original, the translations I've seen always go with "strong and mighty", "strong and powerful", or "strong and gracious". Hence, this translation definitely doesn't find a friend in me.

[Gunnarr]

Re: Heathen Q&A

I can see in your comparative texts that you would be distrustful of the translation, But I do not dismiss any of them they are all relevent and all have information, on the strength of your post alone I will purchase Chisolms Eddas. I use all comparative texts to translate into a piece of work with a more informed heathen read. Larringtons translation has been well recieved into the heathen community, translations like Larringtons and Chisholms have the benefit of other authors in this area, but more importantly a greater literal understanding, due to discoveries and advancement in language.

Thank you for your post,

Modi