"8 Reasons Young Americans Don't Fight Back" - very insightful Bruce Levine article

[Hawkfeathers]

Re: "8 Reasons Young Americans Don't Fight Back" - very insightful Bruce Levine artic

I'm a "late Boomer", I guess - 1957. Late enough that I won't make the cutoff for the present Medicare plan, if it changes according to the most recent talk. I was raised in a paradigm of: Dad goes to work, (for the same company his whole life), Mom stays home. Women couldn't get credit, etc., in our own names. In my teen years the womens' movement went mainstream, and I was a contributor to the best of my abilities. I wrote letters, etc., for Roe v. Wade, for career rights, etc. Why? Because I wanted Dad's life LOL I got it - PLUS Mom's. I did it all, still do. Do I whine/cry/complain? Not much. It was sink or swim when the paradigm changed. Did I have a lifetime job with a pension? Hell no. 3 months after college graduation, I was out on my own and I swam, sometimes underwater, but I kept kicking. EVERY GENERATION FACES THESE THINGS. So get a life, run with it, pass the baton to the next generation when your time comes, and above all else - hope they WANT and UNDERSTAND the rights you fought for, instead of ignoring them until they go away.

[LadyGarnetRose]

Re: "8 Reasons Young Americans Don't Fight Back" - very insightful Bruce Levine artic

20 Years ago... so does that make you a late baby boomer, or an early GenX'er? You have me at a disadvantage here - if you don't want to show your exact age publicly for a conversation about age, then neither will I. And until you use those West Memphis 3 to actually *express* something, it's kinda nonsequitor.

Gen-X.

Actually, yes it did. Talent scouts look for people in existing genres or fields, where cool hunters' focus is entirely new genres popping up. The effect of that difference is significant - a talent scout would go for someone with talent rather than interviewing any kid who looks like they belong to some manner of unfamiliar subculture to examine the marketting dynamic.

Then I'm going to place you in your late teens early 20s. Talent Scouts used to walk the streets of NYC looking for Klub Kids, THEN figure out if they had talent beyond dressing differently and taking drugs.

Since when was our nation that friggin Unique that we can't compare and contrast it with another nation with different results?


I will admit I was hasty in that label, since there is a bit of contention over who it applies to - Baby Boomers, or GenXer's and myself mixed together.

Gen-X's aren't the "Me" generation. Y is when it really came about, the "Me" isn't really ME but "Give me, take me, get me".

I suppose you came along in total isolation, pulled yourself up by your home-made bootstraps, and never had to owe anything to anybody, nor ever found that you needed a break. Meanwhile, down here on planet earth....

You really are having a reading comprehension issue. And I don't mind calling you out for it.

I'm sick of children like you expecting everything to be handed to them.

That's not how it works.

I made my own breaks, I made my own path, and yeah I owed A LOT after 8 years of college. It's all paid back. I don't owe a mortgage on my home. I don't have health insurance and I'm not a trust fund baby. I didn't grow up rich, we were barely middle class. I grew up in Jamaica, Queens, not exactly the best neighborhood.

On planet Earth we do this thing called work, and we get paid for it. Some of us do better work than others. Some of us worked stupidly long hours while carrying a 18 class credit load as an undergrad and invested their money wisely.

Copping an attitude with your elders because you haven't had such an easy life, or you haven't been given everything you want, well boo hoo guess what, on planet Earth you don't get everything you want just because you want it and life ain't fair.

[AzazelEblis]

Re: "8 Reasons Young Americans Don't Fight Back" - very insightful Bruce Levine artic

Then I'm going to place you in your late teens early 20s. Talent Scouts used to walk the streets of NYC looking for Klub Kids, THEN figure out if they had talent beyond dressing differently and taking drugs.

Uhm, that's still not a "Cool Hunter". That's a talent scout. Rather than seeing if the kids have any talent, they basically offer the kid some free crap to fill out a survey about "what's cool" now. Think of a Cool Hunter as on the ground market research, telling the Talent Scouts where to go.

Gen-X's aren't the "Me" generation. Y is when it really came about, the "Me" isn't really ME but "Give me, take me, get me".

Definitions of Generation X usually cover those born in the 60s and 70s. Meanwhile, the increasingly popular definition of "Generation Me" includes those born in the 70s into the 90s.

You really are having a reading comprehension issue. And I don't mind calling you out for it.

I'm sick of children like you expecting everything to be handed to them.

That's not how it works.

I made my own breaks, I made my own path, and yeah I owed A LOT after 8 years of college. It's all paid back. I don't owe a mortgage on my home. I don't have health insurance and I'm not a trust fund baby. I didn't grow up rich, we were barely middle class. I grew up in Jamaica, Queens, not exactly the best neighborhood.

On planet Earth we do this thing called work, and we get paid for it. Some of us do better work than others. Some of us worked stupidly long hours while carrying a 18 class credit load as an undergrad and invested their money wisely.

Copping an attitude with your elders because you haven't had such an easy life, or you haven't been given everything you want, well boo hoo guess what, on planet Earth you don't get everything you want just because you want it and life ain't fair.

Well, I can see that you understand some things.

But you have yet to demonstrate a clear understanding of some things I'm trying to presenting here. Most of the people that graduated with me wait tables, flip burgers, or work at radio shack, with degrees, if they have jobs. And I didn't go to some Online, get-your-degree-from-our-crackerjack-box school either. Most of these people have Engineering or Technical degrees, not some "Liberal Studies" nonsense. The very same jobs they left to go to school were there waiting for them to return, if they were lucky enough to have strings to pull.

I don't need things handed to me. I know what a hard day's work is, I've done daylabor landscaping, construction, and computer repair to keep my lights turned on and my pantry full of ramen. The student loans would only cover rent, but not for the full term. I've walked all over town in 100F heat where the humidity makes people literally drop. I did this for weeks on end, covering Farmville on foot because gas was a luxury. In school. On student loans, until that money ran out.

I'd give my left nut to work stupidly long hours - the jobs just aren't there for one reason or another. And when they do open up? They go to someone else, because people think that people like me can crash on mommy & daddy's couch for forever.

"Made your own breaks?" "Made your own path?" I'm sure that sounds good to you, but those things don't come unless someone can give them. These people need both the means and motive to give you that opportunity. Someone invested in you as a worker or as a business. That school was willing to stake their reputation on you being a credit to their institution, or your money would have been worthless to them. Others refusing to acknowledge how no one is an island has been the most frustrating part of conversations like these, and my year long jobhunt.

Have you paid attention to this "Job creator" nonsense? Wealthy people somehow magically create jobs just by having wealth, according to some. Meanwhile, you and I both know that people with money don't get there by spending it constantly. They simply lack the motive - there's no money in the consumers' hands, since everyone's out of their jobs, taking pay cuts, or taking lower-paying jobs. Since there's less money to be made off of consumers, they don't invest, and certainly not in new workers. Luckily, pulling out completely is normally just as expensive, relative to opportunity cost.

Theoretically, it's a part of a social bargain, where the wealthy will hand out a few jobs to just enough people that they can't lose more than our taxpayer handout gave them. Meanwhile, Herman Cain said it well during the Iowa debate - why would the wealthy do that? There's no money to be made. The whole Social Contract premise of our society breaks down, and its breaks hardest on both premature retirees, and for the young. No, its not just about me, like you seem to enjoy saying that I believe.

Copping an attitude with those younger than you because you think you know something now, and project your own past shortcomings onto them generally isn't a way to influence much of anything.

[Medusa]

Re: "8 Reasons Young Americans Don't Fight Back" - very insightful Bruce Levine artic

If YOU want something to change then YOU better start doing something..
That is other than blaming a letter generation before you. This is your world now. Deal with it. Or not. Because in the not too distant future you will be the 'older generation' and trying to get your children to quit their bitching and finger pointing.

[AzazelEblis]

Re: "8 Reasons Young Americans Don't Fight Back" - very insightful Bruce Levine artic

If YOU want something to change then YOU better start doing something..
That is other than blaming a letter generation before you. This is your world now. Deal with it. Or not. Because in the not too distant future you will be the 'older generation' and trying to get your children to quit their bitching and finger pointing.

At what age is your society no longer your responsibility? Isn't that just a regression back to childhood for Seniors and whomever else you think has graduated from responsibility?

And can I get an investment to run for congress or for a PAC? That is quite literally how that game works.

on a related, but slightly different not...here's something to think about in terms of why there are no solutions.

The link is about how social issues don't become a focus unless you're willing to invest heavily in them. Also noted is the sorta-recent lifting of the ban on corporate contributions to Political Action Committees. Since my generation has no money to invest, nor the power to gain money, can a brother get a break? I'll lower your taxes, and give tax incentives to companies who create high paying jobs. And I'll create a more balanced budget. This is possible by adding new tax brackets, and by bracketting the captial gains tax - both things that I believe we've needed to do for a while. And did I mention you'd have my ear on issues? I can't guarantee I'll agree or vote your way, but you'll have me at rapt attention to discuss solutions.

[LadyGarnetRose]

Re: "8 Reasons Young Americans Don't Fight Back" - very insightful Bruce Levine artic

Copping an attitude with those younger than you because you think you know something now, and project your own past shortcomings onto them generally isn't a way to influence much of anything.

This is exactly what you are doing to those older than you. Because what you are saying is every shortcoming you have is the fault of the generations before you.

It's not. Your shortcomings are your own. The world is what you make it. Not every rich person started out that way, and not every poor person started out that way.

You really gotta grow the hell up and quick bitching about how it's all our fault you can't get a job.

[AzazelEblis]

Re: "8 Reasons Young Americans Don't Fight Back" - very insightful Bruce Levine artic

This is exactly what you are doing to those older than you. Because what you are saying is every shortcoming you have is the fault of the generations before you.

Yes, the hallmark of a truly conscious human being in the ability to overcome the circumstances of their lifetime, and become a bigger, more productive and well-adjusted person. I've understood that to varying degrees of depth for years.

It's not. Your shortcomings are your own. The world is what you make it. Not every rich person started out that way, and not every poor person started out that way.

Yes, accepting responsibility for my side of the street is an absolutely necessary part of that growth process. We're in agreement here.

However, there's only so much I can "make of this world" with no freaking resources. This is the point I've been trying to make the whole time. Don't pretend that nobody ever gave you anything - someone hired you. Did you work for it? Yes. Did they have to do that? No, and you seem to be taking that for granted, where I don't have that luxury.

And for the record, upward social mobility is on a decline: http://www.ft.com/cms/s/2/1a8a5cb2-9...#axzz1Vau9rwr7

You really gotta grow the hell up and quick bitching about how it's all our fault you can't get a job.

Regardless, you haven't answered the bulk of my post. All you did was say "I'm rubber, you're glue!" like the ol' playground days, and tell me to grow up & shut up.

[LadyGarnetRose]

Re: "8 Reasons Young Americans Don't Fight Back" - very insightful Bruce Levine artic

Regardless, you haven't answered the bulk of my post..

There might be a reason for that. Your piss poor attitude about those generations before you right out the gate might have something to do with it.

[AzazelEblis]

Re: "8 Reasons Young Americans Don't Fight Back" - very insightful Bruce Levine artic

There might be a reason for that. Your piss poor attitude about those generations before you right out the gate might have something to do with it.

Meanwhile, said piss-poor attitude might just be reactionary to previous content of this thread.You'd know that if you'd read it.

We've actually got more people paying attention than who are willing to stick their necks out asking "geez, when do we graduate from social responsibility?" And it's got me asking, where the means to do this are going to magically appear for us youngsters.

Or worse, they ask "why is this new generation so slack" in one breath, then allege that their own, or a previous generation solved all the world's ills in the next.

So, Forgive me if I find this piss-poor attitude deserved in some cases - especially when even getting those old farts to acknowledge problems as something beyond "laziness" is worse than pulling teeth.

[LadyGarnetRose]

Re: "8 Reasons Young Americans Don't Fight Back" - very insightful Bruce Levine artic

Meanwhile, said piss-poor attitude might just be reactionary to previous content of this thread.You'd know that if you'd read it.

Oh I read it child, and let me tell you something, you came out the gate with a chip on your shoulder just as you do on almost every subject you post on with this entitled attitude.

We've actually got more people paying attention than who are willing to stick their necks out asking "geez, when do we graduate from social responsibility?" And it's got me asking, where the means to do this are going to magically appear for us youngsters.

What social responsibility do you think my and the previous generations have?

[AzazelEblis]

Re: "8 Reasons Young Americans Don't Fight Back" - very insightful Bruce Levine artic

Oh I read it child, and let me tell you something, you came out the gate with a chip on your shoulder just as you do on almost every subject you post on with this entitled attitude.

Yep, exactly. This time, it's even justified.

What social responsibility do you think my and the previous generations have?

[/quote]
Contribute. Teach, be a part of a community, welcome folks to a community, and frankly, continue to fight for what you believe to be right. Just because you've got a job, and that all came comparatively easy, you have a responsibility to leave the door open for the folks that come after you. Hold up your end of the social contract that holds this nation, it's economy, and its social fabric together.

[Medusa]

Re: "8 Reasons Young Americans Don't Fight Back" - very insightful Bruce Levine artic

From Az..

At what age is your society no longer your responsibility? Isn't that just a regression back to childhood for Seniors and whomever else you think has graduated from responsibility?

As long as I am a capable citizen then it's indeed my responsibility. But after a certain age the blame game gets old. The real question is when does it become your responsibility (sanz the finger pointing)?

[LadyGarnetRose]

Re: "8 Reasons Young Americans Don't Fight Back" - very insightful Bruce Levine artic

Yep, exactly. This time, it's even justified.

Not in the least bit.

Contribute. Teach, be a part of a community, welcome folks to a community, and frankly, continue to fight for what you believe to be right.

You think we don't do that? Are you living in the same country I am?

Just because you've got a job, and that all came comparatively easy.

ROFLMAO EASY?!

Child you really need to work on your skills. Nothing in life comes easy. That's where the issue is. You think we all had it so easy?

Have you NOT been reading what the Gen Xers and Baby Boomers on this board have been telling you.


LIFE ISN'T EASY. It never WAS easy and you know what, as you get older IT DOESN'T GET ANY EASIER.

[AzazelEblis]

Re: "8 Reasons Young Americans Don't Fight Back" - very insightful Bruce Levine artic

From Az..

As long as I am a capable citizen then it's indeed my responsibility. But after a certain age the blame game gets old. The real question is when does it become your responsibility (sanz the finger pointing)?

When I gain the ability to contribute something more substantial, sans the fingerpointing of my self-appointed "elders".

Not in the least bit.

Well, you're just as entitled to your opinion as I am to mine.

You think we don't do that? Are you living in the same country I am?

Maybe not. I Then again, I make it a habit to pay attention to more news than just flamboyantly messed up murder trials.

ROFLMAO EASY?!
LIFE ISN'T EASY. It never WAS easy and you know what, as you get older IT DOESN'T GET ANY EASIER.

LOL! Most everyone that I know has been putting in the same work that the Gen Xers and Baby Boomers did, but you got decent paying jobs out of your effort, we don't. I've been saying this the entire time, and each time you refuse to acknowledge this.

No, life isn't fair, but unlike your little world, I live in a country where this kind of problem demands addressing. When an entire generation is strongarmed into debt they can't afford then left for dead with regards to employment, and overblown personal debt is a large part of what got us into this economic mess...

We make less money for the same jobs, start out with more debt, find ourselves unemployable by default and underemployed if we're lucky, but somehow, we're supposed to pay for your social security throughout our lifetimes? We make less money than you did at this stage of your life, yet you bitch when we literally can't afford to participate like you did at this same age (the inciting article?), and you refuse to hear that we feel that the social contract has been broken towards our generation.

Instead, you'd rather just call me "self-entitled," and "spoiled", meanwhile, y'all raised my generation to be this way, and I have yet to see any better behavior from y'all. Using an older age to support this idea that you somehow know more than someone younger, is no different than the teenager deciding that they know everything. Both are idiot freaking know-it-alls.

Oh I read it child, and let me tell you something, you came out the gate with a chip on your shoulder just as you do on almost every subject you post on with this entitled attitude.

I've learned not to be too meek - in previous incarnations of this forum, I've watched myself and others get passed over by the conversation for being too... gentle. Do I actually have this "self-entitled" attitude? You may never know, since this is a chaote's persona that I take specifically for debating on the pf. Not acknowledging the basis of my argument isn't going to work - I'm going to keep bringing it up until you either back away or freaking acknowledge it.

Why bring it out here, so forcefully, especially in this thread? I see it as more than tangentially applicable to the problems both on this board, and more broadly.

Everyone is hurting right now, except for the carpetbaggers running out of town with our nation's wealth - ask Warren Buffett. There is a lot of disparity fueling a lot more problems. By posting blogs like this, we square the blame solely on the youth. I've seen and heard "elders" reminisce about the good ol' days when they were in college and *could* make noise. As Thal pointed out, the rules have changed - there are very real reasons why the youth don't have the same means to participate. However, their elders retain means to do so.

Narcissistic? Yes, this generation is most certainly so; probably a core reason behind this is the huge focus on "self esteem" in education and parenting. Caelia and I ran into this repeatedly in our community activism. "Self Entitlement" is a western-world thing from where I sit, varying only in how it manifests. Blaming the Televisions that less and less of this generation bothers to own isn't getting us to any insight.

[Juniper]

Re: "8 Reasons Young Americans Don't Fight Back" - very insightful Bruce Levine artic

This is getting way too personal. I strongly suggest stopping and getting to the real issue of this topic.