Police fire on Occupy Oakland protesters.

[Medusa]

Re: Police fire on Occupy Oakland protesters.

Is this where we bring in the nazi talk? And finally kill this thread. Cuz somehow we are on the Jew talk and left the OWS talk.

[LadyGarnetRose]

Re: Police fire on Occupy Oakland protesters.

Very exciting stuff, Dez...thanks for posting that! the words of Chris Hedges ring in my ears when I see that.....from this clip: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tj8UlxhfJLw

As he discusses being witness to many different movements worldwide, including the bringing down of the Berlin Wall, he states, "What happens is, is that the foot-soldiers of the elite, the blue uniform police, the mechanisms of control, finally don't want to impede the movement. And at that point, the power elite is left defenseless."

What a powerful statement of witness......time will tell if it rings true for OWS....

---------- Post added at 10:54 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:46 PM ----------



It's a political movement. There are segments of Jews who do not support Zionism.
See:
Jews Against Zionism - http://www.jewsagainstzionism.com/
Not in Our Name - http://nion.ca/
Jews Not Zionists - http://www.jewsnotzionists.org/
International Jewish Anti-Zionist Network - http://www.ijsn.net/home/
(there are too many to list)

I would imagine they do not consider themselves anti-semitic.

Just because one doesn't considering themselves antisemitic doesn't mean they aren't.

Those groups are mostly ostracized by the majority of Judaism. They are not "kosher".

The rest of your post was ad hominem and not worthy of a response.

Hello kettle meet the pot.

You're no longer worthy of a response period. I'm done trying to educate the willfully ignorant.

[B. de Corbin]

Re: Police fire on Occupy Oakland protesters.

Is this where we bring in the nazi talk? And finally kill this thread. Cuz somehow we are on the Jew talk and left the OWS talk.

Nothing to worry about, really. Probably it won't be the Jews used as scapegoats this time around - they're far too aware and proactive these days.

More likely it'll be Mexicans, since they are already accused of stealing jobs, sucking money out welfare, and riding on the health care system. And they are already being fenced out, shot, beaten, rounded up, imprisoned, deported, harassed, and generally abused BY LAW in this country just for trying to find a place they can work and raise a family.

Nothing to worry about...




Back to those important OWS protests, whenever y'all are ready...

[DanieMarie]

Re: Police fire on Occupy Oakland protesters.

In Europe Germany is actually holding a lot of the anger, and the word Nazi IS getting thrown around a lot. It's not cool, and I think it's a huge slur.

As an aside, I STRONGLY dislike this attitude that seems to be fairly prevalent that you can't criticize Israel without being called anti-Semetic or racist. Isreal is a country, and like every other country it is lead by people, who are not infallible.

[cesara]

Re: Police fire on Occupy Oakland protesters.

I agree on both counts, Danie.

I understand that some people don't read entire threads, so just to clarify, the sideline comments on anti-semitism relate to the thread with a comment made that the owner of AdBusters (the initiators of OWS) was anti-semitic.

[Dez]

Re: Police fire on Occupy Oakland protesters.

Hello kettle meet the pot.

You're no longer worthy of a response period. I'm done trying to educate the willfully ignorant.

Wow...just wow.

So trolling a thread you disagree with is education now?

Are you going to start calling the people on this thread who disagree with you anti-Semites, too?

People keep trying to keep this thread moving, and you are willfully derailing it every chance you get. You have *zero* interest in seeing this from anyone's perspective but your own, no matter how much other people try to explain why they see it the way they do. All you want to do is poke the issue with a stick and then boo-hoo that you are being put-upon when someone loses their temper--other then you, this thread has been running just fine. Long-time member or no, knock it off.


As for the actual thread, I hadn't thought about it that way, Corbin. Personally, I'd say it was a little bit more like someone deciding to come along and blame it on the GLTB community. In the liberal culture in big cities like Berlin during the early 30's, there were a lot of wealthy Jews, and a much more accepting culture then in the more rural areas...it wasn't too hard for Hitler to get people to see them as an immoral elite, unconcerned with the common man. He was excellent at twisting whatever was at hand to suit his needs.

The plight of Mexicans, legal or illegal in this nation, is much more like the plight of an undesired minority pretty much anywhere. It's the perception of French Nobility before the French Revolution, versus the perception of the Irish in England right after the potato famine.

The part that honestly worries me is when you see people with all the tradmarks of being the elite, complaining about being put-upon. Like what Medusa has said--lattes and ipads at protests. There are a lot of people I know who *are* dirt poor, and they aren't rising up and screaming because they're just trying to survive day-to-day.

[DanieMarie]

Re: Police fire on Occupy Oakland protesters.

He actually did it with a lot of Berlin too. Berlin didn't exactly vote for the Nazi party and he was only really able to 'win' it by force and terror. Berlin was also a place that was pretty accepting of homosexuality and for a while in the 20s, it was sort of an 'anything goes' kind of place regarding sexuality. There were a lot of avant-garde artists in various mediums such as film, painting, music and theatre changing the game as far as boundaries were concerned and bringing politics in their work. And of course, it was a hotbed for various political attitudes. Of course, they -all- became the 'enemy'. It was quite a unique place and quite different from other German cities at the time, and it actually breaks my heart to think of what it could have been if Hitler never happened. It lost some of its most brilliant minds, either because of their religion, views, works or simply because they themselves hated the Nazis (and who can blame them? I would have left in a heartbeat). Most never returned.

Anyway, side track. It's just really sad.

Back on topic. I agree that it's pretty sad when people are pretty well of, relatively speaking, and complain about how hard-done-by they are. I've seen it a lot in Canada especially. There are poor people in Canada but a LOT of the protesters complaining about how hard they have it in BC are more of the 'have' crowd. I don't have a problem with well-off people protesting or lending their voice to this cause, because it's really important to show solidarity and support for people less fortunate and use your voice to help the betterment of society, but I don't really like it when people complain how 'hard' life is. I do understand (first-hand) how, when you've had losses, that you can feel a lacking even though you're still really well off, but let's have some perspective people...

[Gunnarr]

Re: Police fire on Occupy Oakland protesters.

Isreal is a country.

Isreal is a state not a country, Palastine was a country until is was partitioned, to create the state of Isreal.

[cesara]

Re: Police fire on Occupy Oakland protesters.

He actually did it with a lot of Berlin too. Berlin didn't exactly vote for the Nazi party and he was only really able to 'win' it by force and terror.

Off topic, I realize, but......*nods* My grandmother, who lived outside of Stade, shared stories of her experience....eventually, she was not allowed to even talk to her Jewish friends and neighbours, many of whom she had known her entire life. She told us that they even developed 'signals' to communicate with each other in public - a hat tip, a coat brush.....many German's were most definitely compliant by force and terror.

Back on topic. I agree that it's pretty sad when people are pretty well of, relatively speaking, and complain about how hard-done-by they are. I've seen it a lot in Canada especially. There are poor people in Canada but a LOT of the protesters complaining about how hard they have it in BC are more of the 'have' crowd. I don't have a problem with well-off people protesting or lending their voice to this cause, because it's really important to show solidarity and support for people less fortunate and use your voice to help the betterment of society, but I don't really like it when people complain how 'hard' life is. I do understand (first-hand) how, when you've had losses, that you can feel a lacking even though you're still really well off, but let's have some perspective people...

Agreed with both you and Dez.....but I do want to point out something that is just as silly......seeing the 'well off' non-OWS supporters call protestors 'lazy privileged student bums with lattes and macs'', while they themselves were born into privilege. I have seen this so many times, even from friends....as an example....my friend was born into family who owns several Hilton Hotels. Family bought him 5000sqft+ house, cars....he works for the hotels, and eventually he and his brother will inherit them -- FTR, I really like him as a person...super nice and generous guy......facebook status: "Now the Occupiers can go back to occupying their parents' couch instead of the street." ...........woah, really? Wow....I personally guage from an attitude like that a sense that these people really don't know, whether by true, or willful ignorance, that people do live faaaarrrrrrr below their experience. They really do believe that if people really wanted to, they would find a job that paid enough to feed their family...that they were just being lazy.....now I'm rambling...lol..,

So yeah, are there spoiled lazy folks at occupy? Sure, of course there are. Are they ALL spoiled lazy folks with no real message and a simple propensity to bitch? Not by a long shot.....

[cesara]

Re: Police fire on Occupy Oakland protesters.

Today they moved on Capitol Hill: http://www.dylanratigan.com/2011/12/...-capitol-hill/

[Dez]

Re: Police fire on Occupy Oakland protesters.

Today they moved on Capitol Hill: http://www.dylanratigan.com/2011/12/...-capitol-hill/

That is great news. This is an issue on two fronts; getting people to vote with their feet and money when it comes to big businesses, and getting the government back to a place where businesses aren't funneling millions of dollars into the pockets of bureaucrats to insure that their voice is stronger then that of the majority that person is supposed to represent.

[DanieMarie]

Re: Police fire on Occupy Oakland protesters.

I think that's good news!

Also, I agree..."Get a job" is neither an intelligent or a productive argument.

[kijani]

Re: Police fire on Occupy Oakland protesters.

I'm just really interested to see where this goes. I still stand by my original opinion that if you rounded up a group, there would be quite a few of them who had no clue why they were there apart from some kitchy inspirational facebook photo they saw. That's really the only thing that worries me is that many of the people that are involved are in it for the wrong reasons. While I agree that "get a job" isn't a good argument, I still think it's the main argument against the whole situation, mainly from those who don't understand how the movement started. I'll be interested to see what comes of it when all is said and done. I don't really agree with it, but I've been keeping an eye on it nonetheless. Are there any updates on the capitol hill stuff?

[LadyGarnetRose]

Re: Police fire on Occupy Oakland protesters.

Isreal is a state not a country, Palastine was a country until is was partitioned, to create the state of Isreal.

Palestine was never a country.

The last time the area where Israel is was a country, it was Israel and Judea. After it was taken over by the Romans, then the Byzantines, then the Ottomans, and just before it became Israel it was under British rule.

There has never in history been a country called Palestine.

---------- Post added at 12:27 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:18 AM ----------

Wow...just wow.

So trolling a thread you disagree with is education now?

It's not just one thread. This is going back 8 years with this individual.

Are you going to start calling the people on this thread who disagree with you anti-Semites, too?

Tell me when in the past that just because I disagreed with somebody I called them an antisemite.

Please do, I've been on this or an incarnation of this board since 2006, so over the last 6 years it must have happened at least once for you to even go there with that.

People keep trying to keep this thread moving, and you are willfully derailing it every chance you get. You have *zero* interest in seeing this from anyone's perspective but your own, no matter how much other people try to explain why they see it the way they do. All you want to do is poke the issue with a stick and then boo-hoo that you are being put-upon when someone loses their temper--other then you, this thread has been running just fine. Long-time member or no, knock it off.

And nobody has tried to see it from my persepective have they?

No they've preached at me how wholesome this group is, when SOMEBODY who was educated from a child on WHAT TO LOOK FOR so it would NEVER HAPPEN AGAIN you cannot COMPREHEND why I MIGHT find YOUR WORDS and the other's words in here INSULTING TO AN EXTREME POINT.

You aren't showing one IOTA of understanding that SOMEBODY MIGHT have a difference of opinion from YOU YET YOU WANT >ME< to see it from YOUR PERSPECTIVE?

I see SWARMS of individuals in GROUPS ACROSS THIS COUNTRY calling TO EAT THE RICH! DOWN WITH THE BANKERS! KILL THE JEWS!

Not Zionists, JEWS.

---------- Post added at 12:31 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:27 AM ----------

LGR, once again, I'm not trying to debate this. I refuse to.

You asked for links, and I provided them. That's all. This isn't a debate, and I refuse to argue the ethical use of pepper spray with you with every ounce of my being...for all the same reasons I would refuse to debate something as barbaric as water-boarding back a couple of years ago.

No one is forcing you to post on this thread.

No one is forcing you either.

[Medusa]

Re: Police fire on Occupy Oakland protesters.

For the love of all this is unholy. Shut it about the Jews.