Pagan Version Of The "Holy Ghost"?

[AL!CE]

Re: Pagan Version Of The "Holy Ghost"?

If you read the 'Silmarillion' you'll understand just how Christian 'Lord of the Rings' is. In the meanwhile just remember that Gandalf does the whole (Jesus) coming back from the dead thing. As does Aslan in C. S. Lewis' blatantly Christian Narnia books. However I feel that both the Middle Earth and Narnia fantasies are gateway drugs, not only to Christianity but also to Paganism and if anything the average Pagan is more into them than the average Christian.

[RiverSong]

Re: Pagan Version Of The "Holy Ghost"?

If you read the 'Silmarillion' you'll understand just how Christian 'Lord of the Rings' is. In the meanwhile just remember that Gandalf does the whole (Jesus) coming back from the dead thing. As does Aslan in C. S. Lewis' blatantly Christian Narnia books. However I feel that both the Middle Earth and Narnia fantasies are gateway drugs, not only to Christianity but also to Paganism and if anything the average Pagan is more into them than the average Christian.

I know that Tolkien was Christian, but I can't help but see the LoTR as Pagan The whole Gandalf coming back from the dead thing, I can see it as Jesus raising from the dead... but also as Horus being raised from the dead too. Which the story of Horus doing miracles, walking on water, raising from the dead, etc. was a story told way before the creation of Christianity or it's written book. Tolkien most likely would have meant it to be the Christian story, given his Catholic background, but I see all things Pagan within the movie. ;^_^

Although, I'm not one to take a side on whether the movie is really Pagan or Christian, at all. It doesn't matter to me, because I love the movie no matter what. But, personally I see a lot of pagan themes, mostly Druid though.

- - - Updated - - -

I'm reading the Hobbit right now and I just read some of his other lesser know works. Say what you want about him christian or not. The man was a genius at writing fantasy.

Thats just my opinion.

But this topic intrigues me. How do you get to that level of estaticism? I suppose I'm too self conscious about my family hearing me durring rituals to "Get to that Level" if you will.

What is the Awen? I've never heard of it. Is it like the "Great Spirit" of the Native American (Wakon I believe its called, *Spelling*) tradition.


Oh! and by the way, my name is Allan, I've *I Think* made an intro already. I just havent been here in a while.

Allan Wolfshadow

Hiyas, Allan! Nice to meet you. ^_^

I agree! Tolkien was a genius at a good story! ^o^

I don't know how I get to that level, I just do. It's hard to explain... I'm an emotional person, so whenever I'm deep in meditation or singing a song in the prayer ritual, something hits me the right way and I slip into this different emotional state. It could be all in my mind or something really real, I don't know. But the closest I can describe it is how I've seen people getting hit "with the holy ghost" in churches. Only, I don't lose control of myself and fall down anywhere (then again, it's hard to fall when you're sitting. lol), and I don't speak in any foreign languages... unless I'm practicing my Japanese. It's just a feeling and emotion within myself and it feels really really good!

Well, I looked up Awen and found this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Awen
It seems that it's a type of inspiration or "muse". And that sorta describes the feeling I get, but not quite.

[Medusa]

Re: Pagan Version Of The "Holy Ghost"?

I'm confused about this thread. Are we talking about something spiritually or are we talking made up books stuff now?
I can go either way. Just point me!

[Caelia]

Re: Pagan Version Of The "Holy Ghost"?

I thought the thread kinda wandered in more of a direction about Tolkien's works and the "parallels" to the topic. Not sure how we got there, but there we go.

[RiverSong]

Re: Pagan Version Of The "Holy Ghost"?

I'm confused about this thread. Are we talking about something spiritually or are we talking made up books stuff now?
I can go either way. Just point me!

It started off as a spiritual inquiry and I was being honest about my question.
But then Alice bought up the LoTR and it kind of spiraled from there. Not that I mind! I frickin love the movies! I'm "eh" about the books... please don't throw rotten tomatoes at me all at once. >_<

[westwoden]

Re: Pagan Version Of The &quot;Holy Ghost&quot;?

here's a piece I've copied from the web (source: The Nexus Druids)

Awen

Awen is the wisdom, truth and most of all the inspiration, Awen is Nature, the universal power behind life, yet it is never born and shall never die. Awen is a force or energy forged from an indivisible source that is the power behind the physical and non-physical or spirit forms Existence, and distinction between the natural and the super-natural becomes meaningless, as both are the personification of Awen Every link which is a part of nature, be it a man, animal, plant or elemental force, each holds its own little piece and together make up the whole chain which is Awen. Awen is the spirit of Druid itself, it is knowing, sensing and feeling it in your essence and true being, it is the freedom to accept ones nature.

[Threshold]

Re: Pagan Version Of The &quot;Holy Ghost&quot;?

I know nothing about the LOTR but I do have some experience with those "tingles".

I have at times broken into tongues in my practice. I had no previous experience and it was quite surprising to me. I never felt like I could do a translation, or really felt like I was saying something specific. I understood the theme of any particular outburst;gratitude, worship, lamentation etc.

I have experienced altered states, but during tongues I felt very present in my body, and mind but as if my soul was in communication with itself, and the throb of the Universe and was speaking outloud.

I've had the tingles. I've felt a sense of extending beyond my body, some mystical and a few shamanistic type experiences.

Even during the speaking in tongues bit, I never likened it to a Holy Spirit sort of experience. I never felt possesed or taken over. I have felt inspired, effervescent, and overflowing. Larger than life.

but I see that IS the way the experiences with the Holy Spirit have been described, I just never thought of it that way.

[RiverSong]

Re: Pagan Version Of The &quot;Holy Ghost&quot;?

I know nothing about the LOTR but I do have some experience with those "tingles".

I have at times broken into tongues in my practice. I had no previous experience and it was quite surprising to me. I never felt like I could do a translation, or really felt like I was saying something specific. I understood the theme of any particular outburst;gratitude, worship, lamentation etc.

I have experienced altered states, but during tongues I felt very present in my body, and mind but as if my soul was in communication with itself, and the throb of the Universe and was speaking outloud.

I've had the tingles. I've felt a sense of extending beyond my body, some mystical and a few shamanistic type experiences.

Even during the speaking in tongues bit, I never likened it to a Holy Spirit sort of experience. I never felt possesed or taken over. I have felt inspired, effervescent, and overflowing. Larger than life.

but I see that IS the way the experiences with the Holy Spirit have been described, I just never thought of it that way.

EXACTLY! ^_^
I have never spoken in tongues, I doubt that I would, but I've had the same experience... it's not that I'm possessed or taken over by something, it's just a huge wave of energy that makes me fell a lot inspired, effervescent, and larger than life. And that is the definition of that people I know who are overcome with the Holy Spirit say they feel. So, I was just wondering if I was somehow transferring my thoughts of my Christian past onto my Pagan practices (for example, I never felt the Holy Ghost in the other religion, but maybe somehow I was tricking my mind to feel it in "new" path), or if it's something real that happens within some religions in general. These replies just confirm it, what I experience must be real and not a trick of the mind. ^_^

[Lawtan]

Re: Pagan Version Of The &quot;Holy Ghost&quot;?

Isn't this connection the point of meditation/meditative walking/shamanistic dance/fasting?
Personally feel a similar experience during active moments outside (waking with an open mind - still can't completely open it. Fear of people has somewhat turned into fear of everything, so the challenge stands to erase my fear so as to open fully my mind) or sensory deprivative meditation (Cold house instead of sweat house).
Which brings me to another question, would it be considered insulting to invite spirits to walk with you rather than forming a circle? Not so much to do something, but to offer an ear for them and take a challenge to listen to them (30-10 degree weather, shorts and T-shirt, 2+ miles. Walk, not run. I know to some it would seem nothing and to others nuts. I take the steps to warm up/limber down afterwards). Effects - words, phrases, images, emphasis on certain things, pops in. Sometimes, get a full "waking" dream sequence.

[RiverSong]

Re: Pagan Version Of The &quot;Holy Ghost&quot;?

Isn't this connection the point of meditation/meditative walking/shamanistic dance/fasting?
Personally feel a similar experience during active moments outside (waking with an open mind - still can't completely open it. Fear of people has somewhat turned into fear of everything, so the challenge stands to erase my fear so as to open fully my mind) or sensory deprivative meditation (Cold house instead of sweat house).
Which brings me to another question, would it be considered insulting to invite spirits to walk with you rather than forming a circle? Not so much to do something, but to offer an ear for them and take a challenge to listen to them (30-10 degree weather, shorts and T-shirt, 2+ miles. Walk, not run. I know to some it would seem nothing and to others nuts. I take the steps to warm up/limber down afterwards). Effects - words, phrases, images, emphasis on certain things, pops in. Sometimes, get a full "waking" dream sequence.

It depends on who you ask, in my experience. When I asked those before who meditate or have shamanistic practices the meaning of those practices vary by individual. A few have said they felt the way I did or something slightly different. So, I've always had this question on my mind if it was something I was truly feeling or just something in my imagination. That's why I dared to ask it here, because you guys and girls seem like a very open minded bunch and won't make fun of me for asking... like I had experienced on other Pagan forums before. ;^_^
But here, I finally got direct answers and less judgments that I'm simply in la-la land with my experience. Which is a huge relief and satisfying to me. I'm happy that I'm not just a nutcase, but others had the same experience too.

I wonder that question too, as I often invite spirits and deities with me in meditation, without casting a circle. I listen to whatever wisdom they have for me, though it comes in words and short phrases. I don't get full messages, unless in my dreams. And I pretty much know the difference between just a dream and a real divine message from the Gods, because just dreams is familiar and often hazy. The real messages seem so serious, very clear as if I'm not dreaming, and calls for my direct attention. They're intense too, like the dream where my grandfather sat me down and said directly to me, "Be careful who you call friend and choose to love so deeply. That person is not your friend and is using you. Please, sweetheart, believe me. You deserve so much more than that." I woke up confused on who he was speaking about... six month later, I figured it out. It was the "best friend" that I adored so much and invested my life into. He was trying to warn me, yet I was so blind and had to find out the hard way. u_u
Anyway, I do believe that spirits, passed souls, and deities do try to reach out to us all the time... as long as we stay open to them, we will hear them. ^_^

[iflewoverthecuckoosnest]

Re: Pagan Version Of The &quot;Holy Ghost&quot;?

Awen is the wisdom, truth and most of all the inspiration, Awen is Nature, the universal power behind life, yet it is never born and shall never die. Awen is a force or energy forged from an indivisible source that is the power behind the physical and non-physical or spirit forms Existence, and distinction between the natural and the super-natural becomes meaningless, as both are the personification of Awen Every link which is a part of nature, be it a man, animal, plant or elemental force, each holds its own little piece and together make up the whole chain which is Awen. Awen is the spirit of Druid itself, it is knowing, sensing and feeling it in your essence and true being, it is the freedom to accept ones nature.

Wow, that's really beautiful and speaks to me very deeply. I want to look into Druidism, now XD

To me, the feeling comes in different forms. Sometimes it is a deep sense of peaceful wisdom, other times a sort of ecstatic awe at the mystery and beauty of the universe. When I reach this state during meditation, it usually feels as though my body is dissolving, or I am floating outside of it. There have been a few times in my life when I had transcendent experiences that imparted enormous, life changing revelations. The common theme is that it always feels like a deepening of my relationship with the cosmic mystery that surrounds and fills us every day.

[Lawtan]

Re: Pagan Version Of The &quot;Holy Ghost&quot;?

I wonder that question too, as I often invite spirits and deities with me in meditation, without casting a circle. I listen to whatever wisdom they have for me, though it comes in words and short phrases. I don't get full messages, unless in my dreams. And I pretty much know the difference between just a dream and a real divine message from the Gods, because just dreams is familiar and often hazy. The real messages seem so serious, very clear as if I'm not dreaming, and calls for my direct attention. They're intense too, like the dream where my grandfather sat me down and said directly to me, "Be careful who you call friend and choose to love so deeply. That person is not your friend and is using you. Please, sweetheart, believe me. You deserve so much more than that." I woke up confused on who he was speaking about... six month later, I figured it out. It was the "best friend" that I adored so much and invested my life into. He was trying to warn me, yet I was so blind and had to find out the hard way. u_u
Anyway, I do believe that spirits, passed souls, and deities do try to reach out to us all the time... as long as we stay open to them, we will hear them. ^_^

Your dreams are hazy? No dream I remember upon waking is hazy, then again, mother said I was sometimes a dream walker - I would say/do the exact thing that occurred in others' dreams or have a forgotten vision come to when the time came - One view of the college (Carnegie Mellon) I go to looks exactly as the most divine cloud formation I ever saw - figured it was an omen, but did not see it until I got to the university. This is where half of my ideas come from, other half from wanting to ease the pains around me (Of Earth, Spirit, Plant, and Animal). Thus I want to invent.

[RiverSong]

Re: Pagan Version Of The &quot;Holy Ghost&quot;?

Your dreams are hazy? No dream I remember upon waking is hazy, then again, mother said I was sometimes a dream walker - I would say/do the exact thing that occurred in others' dreams or have a forgotten vision come to when the time came - One view of the college (Carnegie Mellon) I go to looks exactly as the most divine cloud formation I ever saw - figured it was an omen, but did not see it until I got to the university. This is where half of my ideas come from, other half from wanting to ease the pains around me (Of Earth, Spirit, Plant, and Animal). Thus I want to invent.

Yep. Not all of my dreams are hazy, as I'm a vivid dreamer, and I do have the ability to change things around in my dreams as well. But sometimes I get the nonsensical ones with a guy in a bear suit dancing with an alligator, or the ones where there are weird whispers that I can make out or books that I can't read. Those are just dreams, no real message to be gained. The other ones are often directly or in very clear symbolizing that I can remember upon waking up. ^_^
Congrats on Carnegie Mellon, that's a good university for brilliant minds of fine art, philosophy, and technology (engineering). So, you're in the right place for becoming an inventor. ^_-

[Lawtan]

Re: Pagan Version Of The &quot;Holy Ghost&quot;?

Don't yet know how to update on this forum

Sorry about the betrayal. That's why I have a fear of humans. Gave up my health for my "Teacher's" success.

Do not do what I just did . Too cold for my lungs. Grab a sleeveless coat.

[RiverSong]

Re: Pagan Version Of The &quot;Holy Ghost&quot;?

Don't yet know how to update on this forum

Sorry about the betrayal. That's why I have a fear of humans. Gave up my health for my "Teacher's" success.

Do not do what I just did . Too cold for my lungs. Grab a sleeveless coat.

I have a fear of humans too, I've been betrayed an awful lot in my lifetime, sadly. But, it's okay... it only made me stronger and more loyal to others in the long run. ^_^
And nope, I wouldn't run or that long walks in the cold, if I can help it. I have health issues that wouldn't agree to it. Not to mention that I believe that if I'm not comfortable in a way of communicating with spirits or deities, most likely it won't be successful anyway. I spent most of my life worshiping in a way and forcing myself into a religion that I wasn't comfortable in and didn't feel any connection to the divine. When I started the Pagan path, I found myself the most comfortable, and that's when I began to feel the deep connections for once and to have a question like this. So exposing myself to the extreme elements wouldn't be my way of making contact, but I know for others that can be a valid way. Like fasting, which I do sometimes. ^_-