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    #31
    Re: Should prostitution be legalized?

    Also...just to make this official, since its a contentious topic...

    Please respect each other's divergent views. We don't have to agree to have civil discourse and discussion. Try to remember that we all come from different places geographically, culturally, economically, racially, religiously, philosophically, etc, and that those things color our experience and our opinions. Debate the idea, and not the person. And play nice.

    /end mod note

    With that being said. I absolutely think that prostitution, for the prostitute should be decriminalized. Someone that is forced to make their living, due to economics or something else, should not be made a criminal on top of everything else. (I also think drug use should be decriminalized) Decriminalizing prostitution makes it easier for women (and men) that are trafficked to come forward and get the fuck out.

    At the same time, I think that a very, very strict licensing system for legalized prostitution isn't such a bad idea...the only problem that I have with prostitution is that too often the people that do it, do it because they are desperate. But if it is given legitimacy, perhaps (over time) it can become something that is done as a service...because there is something sacred that can be found in sexual intimacy, and everyone does deserve that, even if the only way they can get it is to pay for it...and there are people that do feel that what they are doing is acceptable (and even preferable) and is a useful and beneficial service.
    Wonderful Life: The Burgess Shale and the Nature of HistoryPagan Devotionals, because the wind and the rain is our Bible
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      #32
      Re: Should prostitution be legalized?

      Prostitution should at the very least be decriminalized, if not outright legalized. Decriminalization would at least solve the problem of prostitutes being able to seek help when they're in trouble without fear of arrest, and that would be great.

      I do think that legalizing it would solve even more problems. It would lower the amount of women (and men) working the streets in dangerous conditions and working for pimps and madams who may be abusive and take almost all the money. No, it wouldn't eliminate this, but they would have a better option. They wouldn't have to work for pimps anymore, and under the circumstances if they were afraid of their pimps they would be able to go to the police.

      Legal brothels are required like any other business to give fair wages and ensure the safety of their employees. It may not be the most desirable job in the world (and who knows, maybe for some people it is!) but if someone feels that it's what they have to do, working in a legal brothel where they're guaranteed safety and a fair wage would be far preferable to working the streets.
      Children love and want to be loved and they very much prefer the joy of accomplishment to the triumph of hateful failure. Do not mistake a child for his symptom.
      -Erik Erikson

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        #33
        Re: Should prostitution be legalized?

        Originally posted by thalassa View Post
        [COLOR=#ff0000]..the only problem that I have with prostitution is that too often the people that do it, do it because they are desperate. But if it is given legitimacy, perhaps (over time) it can become something that is done as a service...because there is something sacred that can be found in sexual intimacy, and everyone does deserve that, even if the only way they can get it is to pay for it...and there are people that do feel that what they are doing is acceptable (and even preferable) and is a useful and beneficial service.
        Temple priestesses ftw!
        The forum member formerly known as perzephone. Or Perze. I've shed a skin.

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          #34
          Re: Should prostitution be legalized?

          Originally posted by perzephone View Post
          Temple priestesses ftw!
          I'm presuming you've read something by Jacqueline Carey with this statement, and as such, I offer an interesting, yet slightly related tidbit of info about myself: Last year I had one of her quotes tattooed to my bust, "This is how we pray", and I put it where I did because the quote is offered by a priestess of Namaah, and I was referencing sex as being sacred. Very few people see it if I'm not intimate with someone.

          The body is sacred. Loving the body is more sacred.


          Mostly art.

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            #35
            Re: Should prostitution be legalized?

            Originally posted by MaskedOne View Post
            How long has the system been in place and does it seem to work?

            I'm not overly picky how the issue is handled if at the end of the day the decision to beat a prostitute reliably earns metal jewelry and the decision to traffic in sex slaves means you get 25-life at best and leave the prison system wishing you had never thought of the idea.
            I'll have to google some better stats for you later, but from my reading it's been in place for a while, and it seems to work better than what's going on elsewhere. Though prostitution is legal here in Germany (and has been for 11 years) there seem to be fewer problems in Sweden, where it's not but the women themselves are decriminalized. The issue here is that even though it's legal, there is still a lot of abuse, and prostitution is still largely the realm of organized crime. Legalization hasn't stopped the predatory behaviour of these people. It hasn't made it more acceptable by the vast majority of society (even in Berlin, where people are largely atheist and open about sex, and where religious morals don't really play a role in peoples' lives).

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              #36
              Re: Should prostitution be legalized?

              Originally posted by DanieMarie View Post
              I'll have to google some better stats for you later, but from my reading it's been in place for a while, and it seems to work better than what's going on elsewhere. Though prostitution is legal here in Germany (and has been for 11 years) there seem to be fewer problems in Sweden, where it's not but the women themselves are decriminalized. The issue here is that even though it's legal, there is still a lot of abuse, and prostitution is still largely the realm of organized crime. Legalization hasn't stopped the predatory behaviour of these people. It hasn't made it more acceptable by the vast majority of society (even in Berlin, where people are largely atheist and open about sex, and where religious morals don't really play a role in peoples' lives).
              Is it just legal, or is it actively regulated?

              To me, it doesn't seem like legalization is enough...active regulation seems like it would be necessary.
              Wonderful Life: The Burgess Shale and the Nature of HistoryPagan Devotionals, because the wind and the rain is our Bible
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                #37
                Re: Should prostitution be legalized?

                Originally posted by thalassa View Post
                Is it just legal, or is it actively regulated?

                To me, it doesn't seem like legalization is enough...active regulation seems like it would be necessary.
                No it's not 100% legal...decriminalization is a better word. Selling sex directly (selling your own body) is decriminalized and if you do it, you wont face any penalties. Buying sex and pimping is illegal. I think this is a better route to go, because it doesn't punish the women or men (who may be doing it against their will or out of desperation), but still punishes people who exploit these men and women (mostly women).

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                  #38
                  Re: Should prostitution be legalized?

                  Originally posted by DanieMarie View Post
                  No it's not 100% legal...decriminalization is a better word. Selling sex directly (selling your own body) is decriminalized and if you do it, you wont face any penalties. Buying sex and pimping is illegal. I think this is a better route to go, because it doesn't punish the women or men (who may be doing it against their will or out of desperation), but still punishes people who exploit these men and women (mostly women).
                  I believe that question was more about Berlin than Sweden Danie.
                  life itself was a lightsaber in his hands; even in the face of treachery and death and hopes gone cold, he burned like a candle in the darkness. Like a star shining in the black eternity of space.

                  Yoda: Dark Rendezvous

                  "But those men who know anything at all about the Light also know that there is a fierceness to its power, like the bare sword of the law, or the white burning of the sun." Suddenly his voice sounded to Will very strong, and very Welsh. "At the very heart, that is. Other things, like humanity, and mercy, and charity, that most good men hold more precious than all else, they do not come first for the Light. Oh, sometimes they are there; often, indeed. But in the very long run the concern of you people is with the absolute good, ahead of all else..."

                  John Rowlands, The Grey King by Susan Cooper

                  "You come from the Lord Adam and the Lady Eve", said Aslan. "And that is both honour enough to erect the head of the poorest beggar, and shame enough to bow the shoulders of the greatest emperor on earth; be content."

                  Aslan, Prince Caspian by CS Lewis


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                    #39
                    Re: Should prostitution be legalized?

                    Ooo brain fart. Yes, it's legal here, and yes, there are a lot of regulations in place.

                    It's been legal all over Germany since 2002. I've read a variety of studies and articles on the subject, and I have the overall impression that legalization has not led to a decrease in trafficking victims, and in some years trafficking has managed to increase.

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                      #40
                      Re: Should prostitution be legalized?

                      In a perfect world each person would be free to choose quite exactly what they truly wanted to do assured that they would have a warm place to sleep, enough food to eat, and the respect of their peers. Instead I think most of us prostitute ourselves in some way to get by in life, literally or metaphorically. In fact, I would guess that most of us spend more time doing things we don't really want to do than doing the things we want to do. These necessary prostitutions can degrade spirit, mind, body in so many different ways. I am not quite sure which morality elevates certain labors as "honest" and others as something else. I suppose it depends on the individual to keep themselves intact as they do what they must to keep living. I know I have walked away from a couple of jobs that would be considered "honest" because I would have rather died than keep working at them, so .... the problem is people who have been denied the right to walk away.

                      There is also been recent talk of legalizing the sale of body organs, and I can't see an easy way to separate that issue from the one being discussed here. The concern is that people without means are forced to make a decision that they would not have made otherwise, but is this not the nature of life? If money were not a limiting factor, then something else would be there to force decisions. It is complicated. A stronger safety net gives people more of a choice, but some one from another country, particularly if they entered the country illegally, still has no real options.

                      As far as laws, rewriting laws so that they criminalize the acts that we actually find abhorrent makes sense: acts that deprive individuals of their right to choose. I don't think most people have a problem with consenting adults striking a deal and having sex of some type. I think people do this all the time and pretend that it is not prostitution -- a night on the town, an expensive gift, a trip to someplace for the weekend, a promotion at work -- let's not pretend that every time it is two people in love.

                      "No, no, you're not thinking; you're just being logical." -- Niels Bohr

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                        #41
                        Re: Should prostitution be legalized?

                        For those that can view it, I added something in the Adult forum about this.

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                          #42
                          Re: Should prostitution be legalized?

                          Originally posted by volcaniclastic View Post
                          I'm presuming you've read something by Jacqueline Carey with this statement, and as such, I offer an interesting, yet slightly related tidbit of info about myself: Last year I had one of her quotes tattooed to my bust, "This is how we pray", and I put it where I did because the quote is offered by a priestess of Namaah, and I was referencing sex as being sacred. Very few people see it if I'm not intimate with someone.

                          The body is sacred. Loving the body is more sacred.
                          No, it's not fiction for me, lol.

                          I had a list somewhere of all the various types of prostitutes recognized in ancient Rome. The one I remember the best (of course) are the bustuariae - they were priestesses of various death Gods (the Romans had individual deities for every aspect of death and dying, not just syncretizations of Hades and Persephone) who plied their trade by day as professional mourners and witnesses, and at night they had sex in the graveyards to help the grief-stricken.
                          The forum member formerly known as perzephone. Or Perze. I've shed a skin.

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                            #43
                            Re: Should prostitution be legalized?

                            Originally posted by volcaniclastic View Post
                            I'm presuming you've read something by Jacqueline Carey with this statement, and as such, I offer an interesting, yet slightly related tidbit of info about myself: Last year I had one of her quotes tattooed to my bust, "This is how we pray", and I put it where I did because the quote is offered by a priestess of Namaah, and I was referencing sex as being sacred. Very few people see it if I'm not intimate with someone.

                            The body is sacred. Loving the body is more sacred.
                            I agree completely.

                            I have Phedre's marque, but gods, it needs to be covered with something more beautiful than what I ended up with. I hate that tattoo, and I want to do justice to the sentiment behind it. I do have "Love As Thou Wilt" written beneath it, and that one I plan on keeping.

                            I believe that prostitution should not only be legalized, it should be respected. Men and woman who choose this profession deserve to be honored, because it's such personal and emotional "work".

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                              #44
                              Re: Should prostitution be legalized?

                              Originally posted by Raphaeline View Post

                              I believe that prostitution should not only be legalized, it should be respected. Men and woman who choose this profession deserve to be honored, because it's such personal and emotional "work".
                              You just managed to say what it took me three giant posts to say, in like, two sentences.


                              Mostly art.

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                                #45
                                Re: Should prostitution be legalized?

                                Well, I don't have much cash, so hopefully some of these noble souls will be willing to work pro bono...
                                Every moment of a life is a horrible tragedy, a slapstick comedy, dark nihilism, golden illumination, or nothing at all; depending on how we write the story we tell ourselves.

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