Heh, Fox News is at it again

[Clive]

Re: Heh, Fox News is at it again

Well, I suppose it's better to be thought of as silly than as evil...

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Clive you are one of the few people who have this viewpoint in this situation. very few. nothing wrong with your view. but just stating what i am observing. i would say 80-90% are not of this viewpoint.

This was first brought to my attention from an outraged Satanist. not an outraged Pagan or Wiccan so i took notice. signed a petition for the apology. and i am currently looking at the people posting just hit the 4800 mark. and not all of the people signing it are Pagan or Wiccan. some are Christian.

As for my view. enough is enough with their garbage spew. this was the straw that broke the camel's back with Faux News. and i think a few other people also think that way. so if we are going to after Faux news might as well start with this.

Yes, well, I call myself a "Radical Pagan" for a reason.

In any case, what I am against is forcible censorship. I'm not an advocate of ignorance, but silencing someone, whether they are right or wrong, is in itself a form of fascism. I see attempting to inform the Fox News anchors of where they were wrong (not their political views, but the facts that they flubbed) as much more constructive than merely demanding an apology.

[Denarius]

Re: Heh, Fox News is at it again

It's not really censorship, they can say whatever they want. (As long as their superiors allow them to, which IS censorship.) They are just wanting them to acknowledge that they were being ignorant and intolerant.

It would be censorship if they were not allowed to clamour for an apology.

[Clive]

Re: Heh, Fox News is at it again

It's not really censorship, they can say whatever they want. (As long as their superiors allow them to, which IS censorship.) They are just wanting them to acknowledge that they were being ignorant and intolerant.

It would be censorship if they were not allowed to clamour for an apology.

I agree completely. While I think wanting an apology and expecting them to mean it is silly, I would never stifle anyone's vocalizing their desire to hear one. They can apologize or not, it doesn't matter to me either way. While it would be nice for them to come out and say "Some of the things we said were inaccurate," I don't believe that they would be truly sorry for having said it.

[nbdy]

Re: Heh, Fox News is at it again

When I saw this I thought it was bizarre. So I went to the University of Missouri website and checked out their holiday schedule. All I am left to think is that forwarded email is considered a reliable news source at Fox. Then again, they don't actually call it "news;" they call it "Fox and Friends." Sounds sort of like a cartoon, and it is a joke.

[thalassa]

Re: Heh, Fox News is at it again

Clive you are one of the few people who have this viewpoint in this situation. very few. nothing wrong with your view. but just stating what i am observing. i would say 80-90% are not of this viewpoint.

I agree with Clive, actually.

I think we are too quick to demand an apology that they don't mean. It makes apologizing irrelevant and trite.

I don't want an apology, I don't even want an acknowledgement of an ill-informed and ignorant series of comment. Faux News is not the problem--Faux News is just doing what Faux News does. I want people to stop feeding the troll--this does more to PROMOTE Faux News than deter them.

The solution is not to play into their hands with hysterical anger (and yes, I've seen quite a bit of that). The solution is compassionate education, solidarity with other Pagans, and most of all, being the regular, everyday, intelligent, go-to person in your community/circle of acquaintances that just happens to be Pagan. That way, when people hear Faux News & Ilk, they have a real-life person to reference.

[thalassa]

Re: Heh, Fox News is at it again

Wow...what a sincere apology via Twitter.

Tucker Carlson @TuckerCarlson
To Wiccans and pagans: Sorry for my pointlessly nasty remarks. Your holidays still confuse me, but you seem like nice people.

This is why I didn't want an apology.

[lightdragon]

Re: Heh, Fox News is at it again

Wow...what a sincere apology via Twitter.



This is why I didn't want an apology.

i think you are right. now let's see if more Pagans/Wiccans/friends of Wiccans will change their views towards you and Clives.

[Gardenia]

Re: Heh, Fox News is at it again

and, for the topic at hand...ugh. Really, that is all I can say. Its Faux News, so I'm not surprised. But on the other hand, I get why people are irritated. I am. I just prefer...to not feed the trolls. Oh, I'll be commenting on my blog, and I'll post the youtube link, because I think people should know what is going on...but the protests and such, I'd prefer not to give Faux News the satisfaction of receiving badly written petitions demanding meaningless apologies.

This is basically my reaction. I'm annoyed by what was said, but I'm not surprised, not considering the source. I did rant a bit in my blog, addressing some of the issues with what was said and all, but the whole petitions and protests? I dunno... Some of the reactions I've been seeing make me cringe a lot more than the original things said. A lot of pagans are using this as an excuse to start bashing on Christians, rather than focusing on the particular people who actually said these things. A lot of pagans are dragging out awful history, saying factually incorrect things, and basically doing the same (or worse) things as the Fox folks. They're sitting there doing the same thing they're complaining about, which yeah... that doesn't help anything...

[thalassa]

Re: Heh, Fox News is at it again

i think you are right. now let's see if more Pagans/Wiccans/friends of Wiccans will change their views towards you and Clives.

The problem is that people like Clive and myself (and Gardenia, and Rafe, etc) is that we aren't going to make a big fuss on our facebook, or comment on someone else's blog or petiton, etc...we are pretty much going to ignore this. So all anyone is going to see is the loud "more persecuted than thou" crowd. Its really not that much different than any other silent majority.

Although, I really like this response.

[anunitu]

Re: Heh, Fox News is at it again

For a very long time Pagans have been vilified and been the subject of so many negative and hateful rants. It takes time to reverse all the stories and BS that have been put out there. Because of these basically urban myths and people making so much up that has no real basis in fact,we as Pagans need to remember exactly who we REALLY are for us. The stories will always be believed somewhere by someone because some people are deep down as stupid as dirt,and I think want to attack anything they don't understand. I know as a Pagan none of these false rants describe me,or my fellow Pagans,and for me at least that is enough. People do many stupid things,sometimes to gain some edge on another group,or perhaps to hide their internal sins or skeletons that live in their private closets. I will not come to the point of hating because I feel more piety about how these people must live with their actual knowledge of their secret shame and hidden faults.

[Juniper]

Re: Heh, Fox News is at it again

Not to play devils advocate here, (no pun intended) but Christianity most likely went through similar abuse when it was first born. Not that this makes it ok and it was certainly on a very different scale. However, I personally take no satisfaction in demanding an apology for people expressing their opinions and I certainly do not believe that pagans are completely blameless. Some of the animosity between Christianity and Paganism stems from those very roots.

[nbdy]

Re: Heh, Fox News is at it again

The problem is that people like Clive and myself (and Gardenia, and Rafe, etc) is that we aren't going to make a big fuss on our facebook, or comment on someone else's blog or petiton, etc...we are pretty much going to ignore this. So all anyone is going to see is the loud "more persecuted than thou" crowd. Its really not that much different than any other silent majority.

The problem with an intelligent response is that it requires an intelligent audience. I think Fox was as successful as it was because at first there was this idea that people would see through the lies and phoniness -- but easily a third of the population did not. The declining viewership of late is precisely because they are being called out, over and over and over. Never underestimate the ability of people to be stupid. An individual person tends to be intelligent, but people as a group tend to be stupid.

[MaskedOne]

Re: Heh, Fox News is at it again

In reference to Juni's comment,

Christian growing pains had a tendency to involve torture and death if you were in a province where the Roman governor could be bothered to care. Other provinces, the Roman governor went out of his way not to notice you. That was a while ago though and as you say, it justifies zilch today.

[B. de Corbin]

Re: Heh, Fox News is at it again

The problem with an intelligent response is that it requires an intelligent audience. I think Fox was as successful as it was because at first there was this idea that people would see through the lies and phoniness -- but easily a third of the population did not. The declining viewership of late is precisely because they are being called out, over and over and over. Never underestimate the ability of people to be stupid. An individual person tends to be intelligent, but people as a group tend to be stupid.

I hate to always be the one to point this out, but I have a forked tongue and can't help it...

Fox audience is not necessarily stupid, ignorant, or loony. I frequently read through the Fox web news (OK, I am loony, I will admit that much), specifically to get another view of issues. Their business section and commentaries are worth reading, even if one doesn't agree with them - unless people fear that they will somehow become contaminated with Foxyness. What one does get by doing this is a much broader, deeper, more honest, and more realistic view of what is going on in the world, and what people think about it.

In truth, their business news is MUCH superior to the general blablabla mush I read in other popular news business sections.

Honestly, if people spend all their time looking at only what they already agree with, they may just as well go back to sleep because they've never bothered to wake up.

That being said, it is true that Fox is frequently so over-the-top that it becomes comic. Not much problem with becoming contaminated when you're laughing.

[B. de Corbin]

Re: Heh, Fox News is at it again

Interesting side note, somewhat related to the original post, and also based on a Fox report -

Pagan people get pissy when pagans are "misunderstood." If we are all about respect for others and their religious beliefs - not just our own - why isn't there an outcry over this outrageous insult to Christians?:

The fake movie trailer for “Djesus Uncrossed” featured the Savior brandishing guns and blowing away Romans in classic Tarantino-style. Blood and gore and profanity spewed across flat screens from coast to coast; at one point Jesus sliced a man’s head in half.

It's a two way street.

People who want respect ought to give it.