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    #76
    Re: Keep safe tomorrow

    Originally posted by Thothur View Post
    If such occurs most in their homes should be fine unless it's a very bad part of town. It's the folks driving through or on foot that likely have the most to be concerned about.
    Normally I'd agree but what I can't stop thinking about is the state of this country. Assad has an approval rating comparable to Obama and he's fighting a civil war while Congress isn't even recognized as a legitimate government by 90% of the population due to it's dysfunction. If people start taking to the streets, what's to stop people from thinking 'rioting over Zimmerman might be stupid but there are reasons why we SHOULD riot'? What's to stop such people from not only joining the rioting but also ranting online? What's to stop those rants from going viral? And if they DO go viral... So ya, if rioting does happen, I'm not so optimistic it'll stay a stupid, isolated race riot.

    Comment

      #77
      Re: Keep safe tomorrow

      Well it would be ugly, that's for sure. And it may indeed evolve into something... else entirely. But that's the problem when you set spark to a powderkeg. You don't really know what's exactly going to happen. You just know that it's going to go boom, and you hope it's in the direction that you've anticipated.

      Comment

        #78
        Re: Keep safe tomorrow

        Originally posted by MoonRaven View Post
        Thanks Monster, I had completely forgotten this song existed.



        I had no idea that a jury in the US could do that either, but being European I suppose I am somewhat excused.
        Out of curiosity and slightly off topic how do you get chosen for duty as a juror in the US?
        Technically, any jury that doesn't have to explain itself can do that. It works better if the prosecution can't appeal the verdict but it's doable. Judges may and often do frown but if the jury is the sole arbiter of guilt/innocence and their verdict can't be easily challenged then nothing prevents them from voting on conscience rather than on law and evidence. If it happens often enough, the gov.'t may decide that arresting and prosecuting on certain offenses does little good when the juries always acquit. It's also part of why lawyers put a lot of care into voire doire. The jury pool is random but prosecution and defense both interrogate would be jurors and can block (within limits) those they don't like from being placed on the jury.
        life itself was a lightsaber in his hands; even in the face of treachery and death and hopes gone cold, he burned like a candle in the darkness. Like a star shining in the black eternity of space.

        Yoda: Dark Rendezvous

        "But those men who know anything at all about the Light also know that there is a fierceness to its power, like the bare sword of the law, or the white burning of the sun." Suddenly his voice sounded to Will very strong, and very Welsh. "At the very heart, that is. Other things, like humanity, and mercy, and charity, that most good men hold more precious than all else, they do not come first for the Light. Oh, sometimes they are there; often, indeed. But in the very long run the concern of you people is with the absolute good, ahead of all else..."

        John Rowlands, The Grey King by Susan Cooper

        "You come from the Lord Adam and the Lady Eve", said Aslan. "And that is both honour enough to erect the head of the poorest beggar, and shame enough to bow the shoulders of the greatest emperor on earth; be content."

        Aslan, Prince Caspian by CS Lewis


        Comment

          #79
          Re: Keep safe tomorrow

          Update: The jury has asked for an 'inventory list' of evidence. I don't know why they wouldn't have already been given this... but obviously they haven't reached a consensus yet.

          Comment

            #80
            Re: Keep safe tomorrow

            And the pro Trayvon supporters....future rioters.......have started forming in front of the courthouse.

            Comment

              #81
              Re: Keep safe tomorrow

              I wouldn't think the Prosecution can make any appeal, due to the 5th Amendment double jeopardy clause.

              No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation
              If they find him not guilty on all charges, that's that.

              - - - Updated - - -

              Ok, the Jury got what it requested, the 6 copies of the inventory list are being delivered, and the court is now in recess again.

              Comment

                #82
                Re: Keep safe tomorrow

                They can't (well the state of Florida can't and none of its municipalities can either but dual sovereignty is a b*** if you piss off the Feds and fall inside the guidelines where they're willing to invoke it), not all countries provide full protection against double jeopardy. My point was that jury nullification works either way but if you're in a country without an equivalent to the Fifth Amendment then it doesn't work as well because it's possible that you may get stuck in front of a second jury with a different opinion. Sorry for the bad phrasing.

                Should also note that acquittals acquired through bribery can potentially find themselves ignored (though the only precedent I know of is for a bench trial) but I don't really expect that subject to be relevant either way

                Harry Aleman - Wikipedia
                http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harry_Aleman
                life itself was a lightsaber in his hands; even in the face of treachery and death and hopes gone cold, he burned like a candle in the darkness. Like a star shining in the black eternity of space.

                Yoda: Dark Rendezvous

                "But those men who know anything at all about the Light also know that there is a fierceness to its power, like the bare sword of the law, or the white burning of the sun." Suddenly his voice sounded to Will very strong, and very Welsh. "At the very heart, that is. Other things, like humanity, and mercy, and charity, that most good men hold more precious than all else, they do not come first for the Light. Oh, sometimes they are there; often, indeed. But in the very long run the concern of you people is with the absolute good, ahead of all else..."

                John Rowlands, The Grey King by Susan Cooper

                "You come from the Lord Adam and the Lady Eve", said Aslan. "And that is both honour enough to erect the head of the poorest beggar, and shame enough to bow the shoulders of the greatest emperor on earth; be content."

                Aslan, Prince Caspian by CS Lewis


                Comment

                  #83
                  Re: Keep safe tomorrow

                  Well that was a bit unexpected. The court has adjourned until 9 AM tomorrow morning.

                  I can't believe they actually put this off another whole day instead of just working a few more hours to reach a consensus.

                  One of the commenters in the Yahoo chat said
                  Sounds like somebody is enjoying the hotel. Pauly Shore wasn't a juror, right?
                  Wow, yea, no kidding, eh?

                  More fillet mignon on the state's (Read: Florida Taxpayer's) dime...

                  Comment

                    #84
                    Re: Keep safe tomorrow

                    Personally, I might think George Zimmerman is guilty as all get out of (at least) manslaughter, on the basis of being a wanna-be vigilante creepy wimp that pansied out when he was getting his butt kicked after stalking some dude (after not being told to by what was at the very least a police representative (BTW where I'm originally from, PD dispatchers have a 50/50 chance of being cops)) and pulled a gun on some punk kid who was PO'd about being stalked by a fat old dude*.

                    Unfortunately, as per Florida state law, I would have to move for acquittal on the basis of their stand your ground law which says that you are covered if you are "presumed to have held a reasonable fear of imminent peril of death or great bodily harm to himself or herself" (Fl Stand your ground statute). But I wouldn't like it. I think there is a helluva lot of subjectiveness in "reasonable fear". Subjectiveness that lets the Zimmermans of the world back out there while putting black domestic violence victims behind bars.

                    And that's the beauty of the American justice system.

                    (as per the original post) I'm still not worried about riots here...but I worry about how deep the racism cuts pretty much everywhere in this country. Of course, we are talking about Florida...it is particularly bad, and always has been (Rosewood for starters...).


                    *And, I'll even add to this the likeliness that a) Zimmerman decided this kid suspicious because he was black and b) Martin (rightly) assumed and (understandably) resented that he was being followed because he was black.
                    Wonderful Life: The Burgess Shale and the Nature of HistoryPagan Devotionals, because the wind and the rain is our Bible
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                    Comment

                      #85
                      Re: Keep safe tomorrow

                      Originally posted by thalassa View Post
                      Personally, I might think George Zimmerman is guilty as all get out of (at least) manslaughter, on the basis of being a wanna-be vigilante creepy wimp that pansied out when he was getting his butt kicked after stalking some dude (after not being told to by what was at the very least a police representative
                      Was it confirmed that he kept following after being told not to?

                      If that is confirmed, shrug, my personal opinion is that if you continue to stalk someone who is

                      1) not on your property
                      2) after you've been told to halt by a police rep

                      and said person ends up dead then barring some very special conditions, "stand your ground" should have no bearing. Sorry, by stalking someone not on your property after being explicitly told not to by a police rep, you are the aggressor. You don't get to use laws built to protect someone on defense if you're the aggressor. I just haven't been paying enough attention to know whether he broke pursuit when ordered to, continued pursuit or if the point is contested.
                      life itself was a lightsaber in his hands; even in the face of treachery and death and hopes gone cold, he burned like a candle in the darkness. Like a star shining in the black eternity of space.

                      Yoda: Dark Rendezvous

                      "But those men who know anything at all about the Light also know that there is a fierceness to its power, like the bare sword of the law, or the white burning of the sun." Suddenly his voice sounded to Will very strong, and very Welsh. "At the very heart, that is. Other things, like humanity, and mercy, and charity, that most good men hold more precious than all else, they do not come first for the Light. Oh, sometimes they are there; often, indeed. But in the very long run the concern of you people is with the absolute good, ahead of all else..."

                      John Rowlands, The Grey King by Susan Cooper

                      "You come from the Lord Adam and the Lady Eve", said Aslan. "And that is both honour enough to erect the head of the poorest beggar, and shame enough to bow the shoulders of the greatest emperor on earth; be content."

                      Aslan, Prince Caspian by CS Lewis


                      Comment

                        #86
                        Re: Keep safe tomorrow

                        I'll update this thread tomorrow when the deliberations begin again. Until then, I need to do something else. Like wash my brain with Clorox to get the stench of this trial out of it. :P

                        Comment

                          #87
                          Re: Keep safe tomorrow

                          All and all,what is on trial here is less if G.Z. is guilty of murder,but what really is fear of being killed as a defense against using deadly force. There is a racial part,but really it is more about the legality of this law that encourages using deadly force by regular(Not police) people. I do understand the need of people to protect themselves,but this law seems at least to me to grant kind of a blanket ability to use deadly force with little concern that one might face being arrested for it. There is an open can of worms here that will never completely be closed again.
                          MAGIC is MAGIC,black OR white or even blood RED

                          all i ever wanted was a normal life and love.
                          NO TERF EVER WE belong Too.
                          don't stop the tears.let them flood your soul.




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                          Comment

                            #88
                            Re: Keep safe tomorrow

                            Originally posted by Monster View Post
                            I'm still scratching my head at that one too. There's 6 women and four mothers. And ladies....the gods love ya....you can't tell me that a mother won't be emotional at the thought of a woman's child being killed, regardless of the circumstances.
                            Stop being so fucking sexist. Seriously. Is this your job?
                            Satan is my spirit animal

                            Comment

                              #89
                              Re: Keep safe tomorrow

                              Originally posted by Medusa View Post
                              Stop being so fucking sexist. Seriously. Is this your job?

                              Its a very valid point. If you have an issue, why not debate it instead of attacking me. Because if the roles were reversed and Zimmerman was a woman...you'd be screaming bloody murder if she was being judged by a jury full of men.

                              We both know it.

                              BTW.......are you bi polar or something? You gave me POSITIVE rep for this very same comment. Really? Talk about mixed signals.

                              Typical woman though. Can't make up your mind.

                              Comment

                                #90
                                Re: Keep safe tomorrow

                                Originally posted by Monster View Post
                                Its a very valid point. If you have an issue, why not debate it instead of attacking me. Because if the roles were reversed and Zimmerman was a woman...you'd be screaming bloody murder if she was being judged by a jury full of men.

                                We both know it.

                                BTW.......are you bi polar or something? You gave me POSITIVE rep for this very same comment. Really? Talk about mixed signals.

                                Typical woman though. Can't make up your mind.
                                I think women can be good jury members. I think your comment was sexist. That's the level of discussion I'm going to have with you.

                                Yes. I'm bi polar.
                                But worse then that I have craptastic eyesight.
                                Lemme go fix that.
                                Satan is my spirit animal

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