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    #46
    Re: Forced Sterilization in Prison

    Originally posted by Luce View Post
    Wow. Just wow.
    I guess I should add that education is important, I strongly believe in education. But. In middle school, all they talked about was abstinence. We didn't learn about birth control until high school. This is still much too common. Students weren't told their rights to birth control, etc in middle school (and we had three drop outs the summer between high school and middle school due to pregnancy if I recall correctly). For crying out loud, it wasn't unheard of for sixth graders to be caught having sex in the school bathrooms. I personally saw two third graders making out. I'm not talking kiddo's trying out that first kiss, I'm talking full on, one leaned up against a tree, tongues tangled, making out.

    I had a graduating class of 120 students. When we graduated, there was somewhere around 20 babies. Two years out of high school? Somewhere around 40. There was one girl who had 3 kids before graduating high school. Two others who had had 2. And we had a sex-ed course in place that began in middle school. There was a clinic for free birth control a block away from the school. Think about this... there were 120 students, if apprx half were female that's 60 couples who had 20 children by the time they graduated. 30% of my graduating class had babies. and that's just at graduation. Within two years that number was up to 60%. Though maybe 20/50 would be more accurate when you consider the multiple births. And this just includes babies born, no note to abortions, miscarriages, etc. (I had a teacher confide in me some time after graduation, that she had found miscarried babies in the toilet with some regularity) And I really don't think these sort of stats are unheard of.

    I don't consider teenagers qualified parents, even if in the end they make good ones. I don't think there's any good excuse for teenagers getting pregnant in today's society. I'm not saying sterilize them, but damn, if their parents aren't going to take responsibility, and they sure as hell aren't, then somebody needs to step in.

    I've seen way too much of this. I've also seen plenty of loving parents who had their kids at a more appropriate point in their life, when they were financially stable, a little older and a little wiser. They were, quite often, happier, with more well adjusted kids.
    We are what we are. Nothing more, nothing less. There is good and evil among every kind of people. It's the evil among us who rule now. -Anne Bishop, Daughter of the Blood

    I wondered if he could ever understand that it was a blessing, not a sin, to be graced with more than one love.
    It could be complicated; of course it could be complicated. And it opened one up to the possibility of more pain and loss.
    Still, it was a blessing I would never relinquish. Love, genuine love, was always a cause for joy.
    -Jacqueline Carey, Naamah's Curse

    Service to your fellows is the root of peace.

    Comment


      #47
      Re: Forced Sterilization in Prison

      Which raises the question, why are kids having feelings like that in third grade? When I was in third grade, boys had cooties! It couldn't be any form of chemicals given to us against our will, like say in our food supply, could it? Naaaahhh, couldn't be.........
      sigpic
      Can you hear me, Major Tom? I think I love you.

      Comment


        #48
        Re: Forced Sterilization in Prison

        Wow, I knew my opinion would be unpopular but I didn't expect this kind of backlash (maybe I should have) - well anyway, as I tried to say before, I have no exact list of people who should be sterilized. I just believe that some people don't deserve kids, period. I agree the government can't be trusted to do so. I probably should have clarified this. I just think in a perfect world, people who shouldn't be having kids would not be having kids. Mothers who drown their children? Stitch that woman up, Jesus Christ! That's about all I can say. It was literally just an opinion of mine.

        I'm a weird lady and I know it - I don't want kids, never wanted them; I'm really great with babysitting and kids like me, but I just don't understand the way people can sometimes get almost frantic about must-have-babies and kids-are-my-everything; as a woman who doesn't want kids, I get a loooooot of flack from parents and soon-to-be-parents and couples and just people in general, so to me those folks start to look like a bunch of crazy people constantly telling me to have babies all the time. Keep that in mind. On my side of the fence it's just like "Oh my god chill out please". Get married and start telling people (because seriously, everyone will ask "when are you having a baby" as soon as that ring is on your finger) you NEVER want kids and you'll start to understand how annoying it can be, lol. The outrage when certain parent-y stuff comes up leaves me scratching my head a lot of times.

        Originally posted by thalassa View Post
        A big fat "fuck you" comes to mind!
        Jesus. I had some peeps express opinions I wasn't fond of in my own forum recently. Did I start dropping F bombs? No ma'am, I did not. That's not what good mods do. If you'd waited until I explained myself a bit further instead of slamming fingers to keyboard as fast as you could in a visceral response, you'd see I pretty-much mostly agree with you guys anyway!

        Originally posted by thalassa View Post
        If that means that shitty people become parents, its the lesser evil, and hopefully CPS can intervene in time.
        Ehhh I dunno, CPS is unpredictable and swamped at best, counterproductive at worst. Many times they won't stop it even after kids have died in the home from abuse. I don't trust 'em myself.

        But to summarize more accurately for those offended, I will simply say I'm agreeing with you on most points! I don't actually, truly want our government to start sterilizing - lord knows they'd start sterilizing all the wrong people for all the wrong reasons because, come on, just look at these guys! They're like monkeys wrapped in bureaucracy! I just think, off the cuff, parents who'd kill their children or whatnot (as the OP gave for an example) should totally be sterilized. Screw those guys! They kill kids! Who the heck wants them having more just so they can murder and beat and rape them? The very idea that people would defend those guys' ability to breed makes me go "Wait what??" Abusing kids is bad. :|

        Comment


          #49
          Re: Forced Sterilization in Prison

          Originally posted by Heka View Post
          Anyone planning to have a child does not spend time planning finances and income, unless you count 'What should we spend our baby bonus on?' planning for finance and income... People should, definitely, but not all of them do.

          And the financial thing would be similar to job searching etc in my opinion. Here, you can only get some forms of dole payouts if you can prove you are looking for work etc.

          And omfgs impartial everything medical would be nice! Lately there has been a lot of hoohaa about christian doctors refusing to give scripts for the pill. *sigh*

          - - - Updated - - -



          My doctor mother put me on the pill at age 15, because my pimples were just so bad. I needed the hormonal treatments. I haven't had an side effects (but then I've only just gone off the pill now, at age 22). I trust her to have made the right call. But I do see where you are coming from. Mum stayed on the hormonal pill right up to menopause (instead of surgery etc). Her periods were just too terrible and she has the same acne problems as I do. Which is kinda embarassing for a 50 yo haha


          Nice to see a happy result
          I tend to paranoid when people have to take any amounts of hormonal agents.

          I've known a few people who sere firm them for acne too, but also know a lot of people who started getting aweful emotional and psychological side effects.

          The impartial advice thing is my big bugbear at the moment.... Not looking at NCT and their use of fear and pseudo science in prenatal classes nooo not at all...

          Comment


            #50
            Re: Forced Sterilization in Prison

            Originally posted by Hawkfeathers View Post
            Which raises the question, why are kids having feelings like that in third grade? When I was in third grade, boys had cooties! It couldn't be any form of chemicals given to us against our will, like say in our food supply, could it? Naaaahhh, couldn't be.........
            Eat organic, GMO free, fresh food! haha

            I think the other issue is what some kids are exposed to. We had two reception boys at my school going at it. Pants down, THE WORKS. Now this would be isolated, if one of the kids' older sister (older meaning like 9) wasn't going around telling other boys her age how 'hot' they are... What are those kids seeing at home...?
            ThorSon's milkshake brings all the PF girls to the yard - Volcaniclastic

            RIP

            I have never been across the way
            Seen the desert and the birds
            You cut your hair short
            Like a shush to an insult
            The world had been yelling
            Since the day you were born
            Revolting with anger
            While it smiled like it was cute
            That everything was shit.

            - J. Wylder

            Comment


              #51
              Re: Forced Sterilization in Prison

              I agree with Rainbow on the point of our gov not really being qualified to do this. They're a bunch of baboons sometimes. But man I wish I could see a change.

              Hawk, you have a point, but I think TV has as much to do with it as anything. When I was in elementary school it was fun to chase boys around to "kiss them" just because they ran from the cooties, like they were afraid we'd turn them into women by pecking them on the cheek. Within five years? That all changed. Kids views on sex are changing and I think a lot of it is what they're exposed to now on TV and the like. Also, who knows what some of these kids have been exposed to at home? Standards are getting lower and lower... I have friends who openly admit to having sex under a blanket on their couch while their toddler is in the room because "he doesn't have a clue, right?" It just boggles my mind.
              We are what we are. Nothing more, nothing less. There is good and evil among every kind of people. It's the evil among us who rule now. -Anne Bishop, Daughter of the Blood

              I wondered if he could ever understand that it was a blessing, not a sin, to be graced with more than one love.
              It could be complicated; of course it could be complicated. And it opened one up to the possibility of more pain and loss.
              Still, it was a blessing I would never relinquish. Love, genuine love, was always a cause for joy.
              -Jacqueline Carey, Naamah's Curse

              Service to your fellows is the root of peace.

              Comment


                #52
                Re: Forced Sterilization in Prison

                Originally posted by Heka View Post
                Eat organic, GMO free, fresh food! haha

                I think the other issue is what some kids are exposed to. We had two reception boys at my school going at it. Pants down, THE WORKS. Now this would be isolated, if one of the kids' older sister (older meaning like 9) wasn't going around telling other boys her age how 'hot' they are... What are those kids seeing at home...?
                True....in my childhood, we were supervised more than lots of kids are today, and prime time TV was The Flying Nun and Star Trek, not Real Housewives.

                I always knew I wasn't going to have kids of my own, and the stuff I endured from other people, was:
                1. In my teens & 20's, "You'll change your mind"
                2. In my 30's, "There's still time"
                3. In my 40's, "Oh what a shame"
                4. Now - "Oh I guess you really DID know yourself pretty well, huh?"

                People are incredibly intrusive and stupid about that stuff.
                sigpic
                Can you hear me, Major Tom? I think I love you.

                Comment


                  #53
                  Re: Forced Sterilization in Prison

                  Originally posted by Heka View Post
                  Eat organic, GMO free, fresh food! haha

                  I think the other issue is what some kids are exposed to. We had two reception boys at my school going at it. Pants down, THE WORKS. Now this would be isolated, if one of the kids' older sister (older meaning like 9) wasn't going around telling other boys her age how 'hot' they are... What are those kids seeing at home...?
                  Hooooly craaap. That is messed up. I agree with Hawk, when I was a kid it was all "ewww boys" and "circle circle dot dot, now you have your cooties shot" - I haven't the slightest clue what would make kids do awful things like this, but it can't be good. Makes me worry that one of 'em was abused. That's so sad! How in the world am I so far behind the times at just 25? I feel like this guy:

                  Comment


                    #54
                    Re: Forced Sterilization in Prison

                    Originally posted by Hawkfeathers View Post

                    People are incredibly intrusive and stupid about that stuff.
                    And this haha!
                    ThorSon's milkshake brings all the PF girls to the yard - Volcaniclastic

                    RIP

                    I have never been across the way
                    Seen the desert and the birds
                    You cut your hair short
                    Like a shush to an insult
                    The world had been yelling
                    Since the day you were born
                    Revolting with anger
                    While it smiled like it was cute
                    That everything was shit.

                    - J. Wylder

                    Comment


                      #55
                      Re: Forced Sterilization in Prison

                      Originally posted by RainbowDemonic View Post
                      Jesus. I had some peeps express opinions I wasn't fond of in my own forum recently. Did I start dropping F bombs? No ma'am, I did not. That's not what good mods do. If you'd waited until I explained myself a bit further instead of slamming fingers to keyboard as fast as you could in a visceral response, you'd see I pretty-much mostly agree with you guys anyway!
                      Thalassa was actually responding to the way I expressed the idea, not your idea. I'm the one who misunderstood you.
                      Every moment of a life is a horrible tragedy, a slapstick comedy, dark nihilism, golden illumination, or nothing at all; depending on how we write the story we tell ourselves.

                      Comment


                        #56
                        Re: Forced Sterilization in Prison

                        Originally posted by RainbowDemonic View Post
                        Jesus. I had some peeps express opinions I wasn't fond of in my own forum recently. Did I start dropping F bombs? No ma'am, I did not. That's not what good mods do. If you'd waited until I explained myself a bit further instead of slamming fingers to keyboard as fast as you could in a visceral response, you'd see I pretty-much mostly agree with you guys anyway!
                        Its hard to tell on the internet, but that was meant in humor. If it had not been, there would have been more vitriol involved, and I would have responded to your comment directly, rather than Corbin's comment. (Also, If I were responding as a mod, rather than as a member, it would have looked like this...and, if I were responding as an admin/co-owner it would have looked like this....we let our staff be members first)
                        Wonderful Life: The Burgess Shale and the Nature of HistoryPagan Devotionals, because the wind and the rain is our Bible
                        sigpic

                        Comment


                          #57
                          Re: Forced Sterilization in Prison

                          Originally posted by thalassa View Post
                          Yeah, that was my reaction too...
                          Well, given the first fact, which is subordinate to the second fact:

                          1. Birth control can have some pretty nasty side effects in some people, especially adolescents (I'm talking the pill and the shot, here), so why the hell not make it universally mandatory and deal with loads of really vile cancers in young women...

                          ...Which has nothing, really, on the main issue:

                          2. People should probably STOP trying to find new ways to control people. We have enough of that stuff as it is, hell, we're WALLOWING in that shit. Especially finding new ways to control young women, which has sort of been ALL OF HISTORY FROM THE LATE STONE AGE TO NOW.

                          All these Goddamn utopian "solutions" like "force people on birth control FOR THEIR OWN GOOD" always wind up the same Goddamn way. Utopias are built on big stacks of bones, and the perfect world is by definition an abomination for everyone except the Good People that thought it up...And things don't usually work out that well for them, either, come to think of it.

                          Comment


                            #58
                            Re: Forced Sterilization in Prison

                            Originally posted by Luce View Post
                            Well, given the first fact, which is subordinate to the second fact:

                            1. Birth control can have some pretty nasty side effects in some people, especially adolescents (I'm talking the pill and the shot, here), so why the hell not make it universally mandatory and deal with loads of really vile cancers in young women...

                            ...Which has nothing, really, on the main issue:

                            2. People should probably STOP trying to find new ways to control people. We have enough of that stuff as it is, hell, we're WALLOWING in that shit. Especially finding new ways to control young women, which has sort of been ALL OF HISTORY FROM THE LATE STONE AGE TO NOW.

                            All these Goddamn utopian "solutions" like "force people on birth control FOR THEIR OWN GOOD" always wind up the same Goddamn way. Utopias are built on big stacks of bones, and the perfect world is by definition an abomination for everyone except the Good People that thought it up...And things don't usually work out that well for them, either, come to think of it.
                            Which is why I'm up in the air. Something needs to change and our society isn't fixing it the way it is. But I get this too.
                            We are what we are. Nothing more, nothing less. There is good and evil among every kind of people. It's the evil among us who rule now. -Anne Bishop, Daughter of the Blood

                            I wondered if he could ever understand that it was a blessing, not a sin, to be graced with more than one love.
                            It could be complicated; of course it could be complicated. And it opened one up to the possibility of more pain and loss.
                            Still, it was a blessing I would never relinquish. Love, genuine love, was always a cause for joy.
                            -Jacqueline Carey, Naamah's Curse

                            Service to your fellows is the root of peace.

                            Comment


                              #59
                              Re: Forced Sterilization in Prison

                              Originally posted by Shahaku View Post
                              Which is why I'm up in the air. Something needs to change and our society isn't fixing it the way it is. But I get this too.
                              Our society is doing JUST FINE compared to any other point in its history. Ask Medgar Evers about that, or look up the teen pregnancy figures for 1955.

                              Our CULTURE is actually better than it ever was.

                              However, we have also refined our ability to think that it's all shit and suggest ways for Those People (whomever they are) to be FORCED into toeing the line, so the rest of us can feel like self-righteous do-gooders.

                              Comment


                                #60
                                Re: Forced Sterilization in Prison

                                Wasn't it more socially acceptable for teens to have children (inside marriage of course) in 1955?
                                ThorSon's milkshake brings all the PF girls to the yard - Volcaniclastic

                                RIP

                                I have never been across the way
                                Seen the desert and the birds
                                You cut your hair short
                                Like a shush to an insult
                                The world had been yelling
                                Since the day you were born
                                Revolting with anger
                                While it smiled like it was cute
                                That everything was shit.

                                - J. Wylder

                                Comment

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