The Ramadan Thread (that's not really about Ramadan at all)

[Malflick]

Re: The Ramadan Thread (that's not really about Ramadan at all)

I want to say yes, of course. But I'm still not sure I understand what you want to ask, can you clarify a bit, please?

(that's not a dumb question at all! I'm just a bit dumb to understand it)

As in, if it is a state of being, or state of heart, do you feel Islam? Do you feel that state of being, and submission to God, or is it a state of being that is lived and not felt?

[Dumuzi]

Re: The Ramadan Thread (that's not really about Ramadan at all)

As in, if it is a state of being, or state of heart, do you feel Islam? Do you feel that state of being, and submission to God, or is it a state of being that is lived and not felt?

Oh ok, it's just that I haven't heard it being used in a sentence like that. But I understand what you mean now

I'd say it's both. You have to be utterly convinced of something, to feel it deep down, in order to have it reflected on the way you live. I heard one scholar describe it in a very beautiful way. He said that first you have to have Conviction through your mind, which will lead to having/feeling Faith in your heart, which will lead to worship through your limbs.

So being a Muslim, means that you believe certain things, and you also live your life according to the will of god. The Qur'an is filled with verses that talk about "those who believe, and do good deeds".

[Dumuzi]

Re: The Ramadan Thread (that's not really about Ramadan at all)

Today's Post: The 10th of Ramadan

Today I will share this awesome and fun video by John Green, in which he gives a crash course about early Islam, as part of his Crash Course World History series. (That you should totally check out, the guy is amazing and fun)

The video is about 13 minutes long (and not boring at all) but I'll just share very little things with you, that are important to understand the history behind Islam. Just key points really:

• At age 40: Muhammad received the first revelation of the Qur'an. He was living in Mecca at the time.
  
  
• 13 years in Mecca: Muhammad continued to receive revelation and preached about Islam. During that period Muslims were a minority in the city. They were often persecuted against, tortured and killed. The Arab Pagans simply refused Muhammad's 'new' religion and fought it in every shape and form. Muhammad himself suffered a lot because of that persecution, and was going to be assassinated, on the night he decided to leave the city and migrate.
  
  
• 10 years in Madinah: The city Muhammad migrated to, called Yathrib then, and Madinah later on, already had a big Muslim population. They had heard about Islam and accepted the religion so that when Muhammad arrived he was welcomed and declared a leader over the city. This is in contrast to living in Mecca. For the first time in history, a Muslim state was formed, with Muhammad as its leader, and with a written 'constitution'. During that period, all the battles spoken about in the Qur'an started taking place. Revelation continued for 10 more years.
  
  
• Death of Muhammad: After 23 years of receiving revelation, the Qur'an was finally complete, the full message was finally delivered. On that same year Muhammad passed away.

I might go into more details about those specific historical events, but I just wanted to give you an overview first. If anything, remember this one fact. Revelation lasted for 23 years, 13 of which were in Mecca, and 10 years were in Madinah. ::


PS: If you liked that video, you should totally check the video after it, The Dark Ages, because it talks about later Muslim history.

[Malflick]

Re: The Ramadan Thread (that's not really about Ramadan at all)

I'll watch the video when I awaken! I already learned quite a bit from that text there though. I didn't realize Islam was something that was already a cohesive movement during Mohammad's life! That's pretty cool. Also, that there is such a clear timeline for the writing of the Qur'an.

[Heka]

Re: The Ramadan Thread (that's not really about Ramadan at all)

Al Fatiha (first Surah of the Qur'an, turn on Annotations for translation, it's not perfect though you will get the message)

Al Ma'oon (meaning the acts of kindness)

Can women sing these? Or is it only men?

Also, the Indonesian word for poor is 'miskin'! There is so much Arabic in Indonesian

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Other two concepts which the video brings up, are the concept of Fitrah and the concept of everything being essentially Muslim in the universe.

Fitrah means the natural disposition that we are born with. In Islam everyone is born with the Fitrah, we are born pure and with the inclination to do good, and with the yearning to find our creator. Thus, there is no original sin in Islam (I might talk about this, and the story of Adam, in another post). we are all born Muslim. But it's our society or parents that shape us into other ways of life as we grow up.

I really really like this. I've always had a major problem with the concept of Original Sin. According to some Christians, we don't actually have it since Jesus, as he died for ALL our sins (though we can still sin). Some though, are so hung up on the idea of Original Sin, and I'm of the opinion that this is partly why women have often had it worse than men in society.

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The information about Hadith is really good, and makes a lot of sense. I would be interested in which Hadiths (is the the plural?) are considered canon, and how this differs. It seems that anti-Islamic people use poorly referenced Hadiths to make Islam look bad.

This also got me thinking about how we have so many issues with religious vs secluar governments/laws etc, and how Islam just does that all no worries.

I'm expressing this poorly, but I like it

Also I now more understand Sunni/Shi'a. I would assume the Hadiths which are considered canon vary most greatly between these to denominations?

[Dumuzi]

Re: The Ramadan Thread (that's not really about Ramadan at all)

Can women sing these? Or is it only men?

Also, the Indonesian word for poor is 'miskin'! There is so much Arabic in Indonesian

Yes, everyone should learn how to recite (that's the word we use ) the Qur'an. My mother is actually taking lessons on it, so she can know how to read it properly. Though I should clarify, women don't do that in public, especially since it's a man leading the prayers when there are other men there. And just to clarify, this has NOTHING to do with being extra religious or closer to god. Anyone praying in sincerity to god is rewarded equally whether male or female, according to the Qur'an.

Yay, I learned a word in Indonesian!

I really really like this. I've always had a major problem with the concept of Original Sin. According to some Christians, we don't actually have it since Jesus, as he died for ALL our sins (though we can still sin). Some though, are so hung up on the idea of Original Sin, and I'm of the opinion that this is partly why women have often had it worse than men in society.

I should really make a post about that story. I'll also point out that the Qur'an doesn't blame Eve for going against God here. In some places both are addressed, and in others only Adam is addressed.

The information about Hadith is really good, and makes a lot of sense. I would be interested in which Hadiths (is the the plural?) are considered canon, and how this differs. It seems that anti-Islamic people use poorly referenced Hadiths to make Islam look bad.

This also got me thinking about how we have so many issues with religious vs secluar governments/laws etc, and how Islam just does that all no worries.

I'm expressing this poorly, but I like it

Also I now more understand Sunni/Shi'a. I would assume the Hadiths which are considered canon vary most greatly between these to denominations?

Yes, there are some differences because of the narrators of such Hadiths (The Arabic plural is Ahadith, but I've seen Hadiths being used a lot!).

I should point out though that in Al Azhar, biggest Muslim University, both Sunni and Shi'a religious laws are studied and accepted as legitimate Islamic law in most cases. So there's lots of common ground here. It's the differences that are the exceptions.

Both read the same Qur'an, believe in the same prophets, angels, books, day of judgment and the hereafter.

[Heka]

Re: The Ramadan Thread (that's not really about Ramadan at all)

Thanks for the replies!

Yes, everyone should learn how to recite (that's the word we use ) the Qur'an. My mother is actually taking lessons on it, so she can know how to read it properly. Though I should clarify, women don't do that in public, especially since it's a man leading the prayers when there are other men there. And just to clarify, this has NOTHING to do with being extra religious or closer to god. Anyone praying in sincerity to god is rewarded equally whether male or female, according to the Qur'an.

Yay, I learned a word in Indonesian!

I get that women can do the prayers still, but they can't do it when men would listen?? Can they do it in all women situations/mosques? (Do those things exist?)

I should really make a post about that story. I'll also point out that the Qur'an doesn't blame Eve for going against God here. In some places both are addressed, and in others only Adam is addressed.

I agree!

Yes, there are some differences because of the narrators of such Hadiths (The Arabic plural is Ahadith, but I've seen Hadiths being used a lot!).

I should point out though that in Al Azhar, biggest Muslim University, both Sunni and Shi'a religious laws are studied and accepted as legitimate Islamic law in most cases. So there's lots of common ground here. It's the differences that are the exceptions.

Both read the same Qur'an, believe in the same prophets, angels, books, day of judgment and the hereafter.

But the ahadith are the interpretations of the Qur'an aren't they? And that's how people get in trouble...

[Dumuzi]

Re: The Ramadan Thread (that's not really about Ramadan at all)

Thanks for the replies!

You're welcome!

I get that women can do the prayers still, but they can't do it when men would listen?? Can they do it in all women situations/mosques? (Do those things exist?)

Yes, they usually do it amongst themselves. And most mosques have women only sections. Women and Men are separated when praying, this has mostly to do with how Muslims pray. It wouldn't be nice to have women bending over in front of me when praying!

But the ahadith are the interpretations of the Qur'an aren't they? And that's how people get in trouble...

Some of them are, yes. They do explain lots of verses on which we differ.

[Heka]

Re: The Ramadan Thread (that's not really about Ramadan at all)

Yes, they usually do it amongst themselves. And most mosques have women only sections. Women and Men are separated when praying, this has mostly to do with how Muslims pray. It wouldn't be nice to have women bending over in front of me when praying!

baha, you'd love it!


In all this wonderful education you're giving us, I'd love to see more stuff pertaining to ahadith After you explain the Adam and Eve stuff! haha

[Dumuzi]

Re: The Ramadan Thread (that's not really about Ramadan at all)

baha, you'd love it!


In all this wonderful education you're giving us, I'd love to see more stuff pertaining to ahadith After you explain the Adam and Eve stuff! haha

I can imagine the headlines when Muslims start praying like that.

"ALL MEN BECOME MUSLIM AND START PRAYING ALL THE TIME"

I still haven't decided what I want to post today, but I will definitely try to cover those topics in this thread, god willing

[Malflick]

Re: The Ramadan Thread (that's not really about Ramadan at all)

Learning the differences between Bible Stories and Qur'an stories is super interesting for me, as I love learning about the Bible tales (and deleted a short rant I had in this post about misconceptions about the Biblical Adam/Eve story lol) from different perspectives.

As for the video:
Learned much. I think its interesting that the divide in the religion came because of leadership differences, so its more like the divide between Roman and Byzantine Catholic Christians, than between Protestants and Roman Catholics. Obviously still different, but similar. Could you expand on this divide and how it affects the faith today?

[Dumuzi]

Re: The Ramadan Thread (that's not really about Ramadan at all)

Learning the differences between Bible Stories and Qur'an stories is super interesting for me, as I love learning about the Bible tales (and deleted a short rant I had in this post about misconceptions about the Biblical Adam/Eve story lol) from different perspectives.

As for the video:
Learned much. I think its interesting that the divide in the religion came because of leadership differences, so its more like the divide between Roman and Byzantine Catholic Christians, than between Protestants and Roman Catholics. Obviously still different, but similar. Could you expand on this divide and how it affects the faith today?

Please share any kinds of rants that you may have! I'm sure we can all learn a lot from whatever you have to say.

And you are right about the divide. It's a divide that happened because of a disagreement on who should lead Muslims. So it's not a disagreement in terms of theology or belief. Both believe in the same God, read the same Qur'an and so on.

According to the Shi'a, the one leading the Muslims has to be someone from the household of Muhammad. According to the Sunni, it should be anyone the Muslims choose to be the leader.

I found a short video of a larger lecture, where the man is explaining it better than I am. He does go into a little bit more detail about the difference that exists today. (I skipped to the relevant part)

[Dumuzi]

Re: The Ramadan Thread (that's not really about Ramadan at all)

Today's Post: The 11th of Ramadan

Today's topic (What is the Qur'an?) sounded like too much information, so before I talk about it I thought I'd post something different, today. This is a TED-talk about the Qur'an from a agnostic Jewish woman!

So if you are too tired to read, just watch this interesting video. I try to bring up videos of non Muslim talking about Islam, because it gives you an outsider's point of view that I myself cannot really give you. Hope you enjoy it!

What is the Qur'an?

"O mankind, there has come to you a conclusive proof from your Lord, and We have sent down to you a clear light."

Muslims believe that the Qur'an is the actual, literal, verbatim words of God.

This is not a book that was written about Muhammad, or a book that Muhammad was inspired to write. Muslims believe those are the exact words of God that Muhammad conveyed to us, as the messenger of God. Every word and every letter, was used and put in their specific location for a specific reason.

Muslim or not, the Qur'an is the book that Muhammad claims was revealed to him by God, via an angel (Gabriel). The difference between a Muslim and a non Muslim, is about the true author of the Qur'an. Muslims obviously believe it was God, while non Muslims believe it was Muhammad, writing it alone, or having others helping him out.

This continuous revelation of the Qur'an lasted for 23 years. It started when Muhammad was 40 years old, and ended when he was 63. The same year he passed away. 13 years of revelation took place while Muhammad was living in Mecca, and 10 years of revelation took place while Muhammad was in Madinah.

The Qur'an is made out of 114 'chapters', or in Arabic a Surah. Each Surah contains a certain number of 'verses', though the Arabic word used here is Ayah, meaning a sign/miracle/proof. The chapters differ in size. The longest one is 286 Ayat long. The shortest one only has three.

It should be clarified that the chapters are ordered the same way Muhammad used to recite them. They are not ordered according to chronology or the time of their revelation. The first Surah that was revealed to Muhammad (specifically the first 5 verses) is actually the Surah number 96 in the Qur'an.

They way I think of the Qur'an when I try to explain it to others, is like a concept Album, that consists of many songs. Each song has its own theme and style. But all of the songs are connected to each other, have a specific order, and together give the listener a specific message.

I say listener because the Qur'an means 'the recitation', it was transmitted orally by Muhammad, who could neither write nor read. And it's meant to be recited and heard.

I will post again about the Qur'an, but I will end with this very important note.

Prophets like Moses and Jesus, were given scripture and also performed miracles. Those miracles occurred many years ago. In the case of Muhammad, the book that was given to him IS his ultimate miracle. It's a miracle that can be accessed and examined to this day. The reason I say miracle, is because the Qur'an challenged its early audience in many places of the Qur'an, in case they are in doubt about it, to produce something like it, if they think it was created by humans. Many of the early Arabs accepted Islam by just listening to the Qur'an being recited.

"And if you are in doubt about what We have sent down upon Our Servant [Muhammad], then produce a surah the like thereof and call upon your witnesses other than Allah, if you should be truthful. [2:23]

[10:37-38]

I will talk more about the Qur'an in another post, god willing

[Heka]

Re: The Ramadan Thread (that's not really about Ramadan at all)

Please share any kinds of rants that you may have! I'm sure we can all learn a lot from whatever you have to say.

And you are right about the divide. It's a divide that happened because of a disagreement on who should lead Muslims. So it's not a disagreement in terms of theology or belief. Both believe in the same God, read the same Qur'an and so on.

According to the Shi'a, the one leading the Muslims has to be someone from the household of Muhammad. According to the Sunni, it should be anyone the Muslims choose to be the leader.

I found a short video of a larger lecture, where the man is explaining it better than I am. He does go into a little bit more detail about the difference that exists today. (I skipped to the relevant part)

So majority of the world are Sunni, and they believe that the leader should be elected, rather than decended?

I need to watch this again, but those are my only real questions.

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That TED talk does not motivate me to read the Qur'an! haha but it it insightful

[Dumuzi]

Re: The Ramadan Thread (that's not really about Ramadan at all)

So majority of the world are Sunni, and they believe that the leader should be elected, rather than decended?

Yes, about 90% of Muslims are Sunni, but it's not an issue of elected vs decedent. No matter what method is used to choose the next leader, Sunnis believe it could be anyone, while Shi'a believe it has to be someone from the bloodline of Muhammad.

That TED talk does not motivate me to read the Qur'an! haha but it it insightful

Haha. I just thought it's something interesting and different to post is all. An agnostic Jewish woman speaking about the Qur'an! Don't let it demotivate you!