Punishment as Deterrence

[Ophidia]

Re: Punishment as Deterrence

does that come with salsa ??

No! Only guacamole!

[Chris]

Re: Punishment as Deterrence

No! Only guacamole!

oh......drat...you'll have to keep them then

tried guacamole once at a thanksgiving day that some of the American post grads at Durham gave...I liked the pumpkin pie but guacamole ---eeeeeeyuk

can I have ketchup instead ???

[thalassa]

Re: Punishment as Deterrence

sort of related to the (real) topic at hand, and which I thought was interesting: http://www.puppiesbehindbars.com/goa...essing-results

[ChainLightning]

Re: Punishment as Deterrence

That site doesn't like my phone.

If I'm reading it right, though, inmates training working dogs?

So much for punishment. Rehabilitation with some well-earned self respect. Cool!

[thalassa]

Re: Punishment as Deterrence

That site doesn't like my phone.

If I'm reading it right, though, inmates training working dogs?

So much for punishment. Rehabilitation with some well-earned self respect. Cool!

Yup, they are trained to raise the dogs and train them so that they can be bomb-detecting dogs or dogs for veterans with disabilities. AND, you can help fund their program by adopting the dogs that aren't quite good enough to make the cut (I think this might be the route we go--it is pricey, but no more expensive that vaccinating, fixing, and training the dog (with a trainer) on your own...and the money goes to a good cause).

[Rae'ya]

Re: Punishment as Deterrence

I am absolutely a fan of inmates trainjng service dogs. Not only is it giving them responsibility, a potential career on the outside and something constructive to do with their time, but they are also contributing positively to society and learning about appropriate behaviours and operant conditioning. It's a win-win in my mind.

[Tylluan Penry]

Re: Punishment as Deterrence

The Norwegians came up with a very novel idea....

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2013/feb/25/norwegian-prison-inmates-treated-like-people

And given the very low re-offending rates, perhaps it should be tried elsewhere...

[Rick]

Re: Punishment as Deterrence

The Norwegians came up with a very novel idea....

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2013/feb/25/norwegian-prison-inmates-treated-like-people

And given the very low re-offending rates, perhaps it should be tried elsewhere...

Oh, those wacky 'Wegians, treating inmates like people... what'll they think of next?

[ChainLightning]

Re: Punishment as Deterrence

I find that most impressive.

I also found the story a bit shocking, in terms of sentences - I'm so accustomed to the revenge rate, the draconian multiple life sentences.

For example:

That fellow that massacred 77 people, it takes quite the intellectual leap to step away from a death sentence or several dozen life sentences, doing 20 years... I feel rather insulted by his "slap on the wrist" sentence. I'm sure many, many others will feel the disbelief at how light that kind of prison term is, for such a horrific crime.

Which means, of course, that there's going to have to be a shift in understanding, on a society level, before such a thing could really 'take off'. A huge shift. Monstrous, multiplied by enormous. People want a different kind of justice, I think.

[Tylluan Penry]

Re: Punishment as Deterrence

I think first of all we have to decide - as a society - what we want? Revenge? Punishment? A safer society? And if it's the latter, then how? By rehabilitation? Or by wiping the offenders off the face of the earth?

Who knows? I don't. But there is one thing I find a bit odd - in the UK at any rate. When say, a mass murderer like Harold Shipman (whose MO was a syringe and not a kalashnikov) got a life sentence, people said he'd got off too lightly and should have been hanged.

When he was later found hanged in prison (and note that I chose my words very carefully there because... well, I'm still not entirely convinced...) people were saying ... he'd got off too lightly and should have served a life sentence.

[ChainLightning]

Re: Punishment as Deterrence

I hear that a lot, here in the US, too, Mrs. P.

An early demise or a lengthy imprisonment, whichever one is used it's the other that would have been "worse". So... justice is measured by degree, now? I don't think people really want justice - I think it's comeuppance, they're after.

[thalassa]

Re: Punishment as Deterrence

Or, we need to figure out what justice *is*. What does it look like?

[ChainLightning]

Re: Punishment as Deterrence

Or, we need to figure out what justice *is*. What does it look like?

I know what it's supposed to feel like. Fairness. But... it's looking a lot more like vengeance, these days. >:-(

[Bjorn]

Re: Punishment as Deterrence

WARNING: I am a little loopy right now so this isn't going to be the most eloquent thing I've ever spewed.


Punishment as deterrence? I see two applications: personal and political.

PERSONAL: When I was growing up and was still learning what "right and wrong" were, physical punishments were very effective. I did NOT want to be spanked because it hurt so bad, so I developed a little voice in my head that would pipe up and remind me 'hey, last time you did something you knew mom and dad didn't like, dad spanked you. Maybe we should rethink this' before I carried on with whatever nefarious thing I was considering.

As I grew older and more mature, punishments became less and less effective, probably because spanking was off the table. Ground me? All right, I'll be in my room. I don't really do anything anyway. Take away TV, computer, and phone privileges? All right, there are some books I've been ignoring. More chores? That's going to take away precious bassoon practice time so good call. Nothing worked, seriously, NOTHING worked since I just shrugged it off and made the best of it until it was over. I knew it was temporary. After a while, punishment wasn't harsh enough or awful enough to make me reconsider my actions.

Therefore, in a personal sense, I believe that positive reinforcement is probably a more effective manner, especially for headstrong kids and teenagers. NOT TO SAY that punishment shouldn't be on the table, most definitely I think that it should be, but I think that as a method of behavioral training it's better to sprinkle some sunshine on the good stuff instead of rub their noses in shit.



POLITICAL: As for prison/jail, they're horrendously expensive and filled to the brim with petty criminals and drug offenders. I will preface this next unpopular opinion by saying that this is only a theoretical look and I understand fully that this could NEVER BE PRACTICED with our current justice system. If our justice system wasn't run so horribly then I would say to kill everyone serving a life sentence and kill all known pedophiles along with anyone who raped or murdered. It's terribly expensive to keep them alive and we can harvest their organs. I know that probably sounds harsh but I don't really see any use for them and keeping them alive is a drain.

Given all that, I suppose that means that yes, I think that punishment as a deterrence can be effective mostly in children and the masses. I simply don't have faith humanity when we start to look at large numbers of people so I cannot pretend that everyone is going to govern themselves by a moral compass that points mostly north.

[Luce]

Re: Punishment as Deterrence

Prison is not a deterrent. Period.