Sex Ritual -- the Controversy!

[Threshold]

Re: Sex Ritual -- the Controversy!

My point with all of this is that while nudity and sex are always optional, it should probably be the event that is optional. If you know there's nudity and you're not into that, then don't come. Same goes for sex. If you don't want to join the group because it has both, that's fine too. No one requires you to join or to participate. It's always optional, and, of course, there are events that are fully clothed at all times. I don't think that's unfair, but what do you guys think?

I think this is a great way to go about it. Self selecting. Everyone knows what the deal is and they can opt in or out.

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I think it's a given that no matter what the nature of our beliefs and rituals some people won't like it, and will choose to not join or not stay in the group. That should never be a reason to not follow the tenants of the faith.

People are welcome to form their own group that believes and worships as they do. If the group from the outset has designated itself as ecclectic and inclusive then those things usually go up for vote or group consent.

I would not feel safe or comfortable participating in a group sexual ritual if it involved me being physically intimate with someone other than my given partner.

Our own relationship vows, and my culture would leave me with consequences that would outweigh my perceived benefit from participating. I have engaged in one on one sex rituals honoring holy days etc, and it's been awesome.

I do know of a group that uses nude and sexual rituals. From what I have seen and heard it's more about the head warlock having his jollies with the young female recruits.

In no way do I think that is the nature or intent of most nude/sex rituals, but yeah...these things can go bad. Life is risky.

[Hoho]

Re: Sex Ritual -- the Controversy!

I'd rather cut myself for blood sacrifice :/

[Orecha]

Re: Sex Ritual -- the Controversy!

I do know of a group that uses nude and sexual rituals. From what I have seen and heard it's more about the head warlock having his jollies with the young female recruits.

In no way do I think that is the nature or intent of most nude/sex rituals, but yeah...these things can go bad. Life is risky.

And this is what gives these sort of rituals a bad name. Very similar to the freaks and pedos who give varied forms of polyamory and multiple marriage a bad name. While polyamory is gaining some foothold in modern culture, the terms polygamy and polygyny still dredge up negative feelings of misogyny and child abuse among many in the West. I fear that, like with concept of multiple marriage, for some people in the pagan communities and the world as a whole, the taint that some groups have left on nude and sex rituals may be permanent.

Not that it will keep me from doing it or anything...

[IsisSekhemetRa]

Re: Sex Ritual -- the Controversy!

I'm going to agree with you on this point. Ritual sex and sex magic are all ways to raise energy. Wicca is a fertility religion and sex is apart of it. This is what gets me about some, and I mean some, people. They love to worship the goddess but they totally are turned off by sex magic. Eye rolling time.

[Ektor]

Re: Sex Ritual -- the Controversy!

As long as it's done with consenting partner(s), I think sex magic is one of the most powerful things there are. I'm all for it, but since emotional stuff is often heavily involved, it needs that extra dose of responsibility to be done. I think I have this view cause I myself am very drawn to Aphrodite and Hathor, Goddesses related to love and sex among other things.

[thalassa]

Re: Sex Ritual -- the Controversy!

Ritual sex and sex magic are all ways to raise energy. Wicca is a fertility religion and sex is apart of it. This is what gets me about some, and I mean some, people. They love to worship the goddess but they totally are turned off by sex magic. Eye rolling time.

I'm going to think that you just haven't thought this comment through, as the alternative would be pretty disappointing.

Because basically, you are saying that you think its fair to someone thats been raped to "roll your eyes" at them for their prudishness because they are uncomfortable with the idea of fucking someone in a situation that the have no control over. You think that a statement of contempt and mockery (is that not why one rolls their eyes?) is a fair reaction to someone that doesn't want to get naked with a group of people for a religious experience after having been sexually molested as a child. Or you just feel justified in rolling your eyes because someone that has been harassed their entire life into thinking they are ugly or fat or...maybe they have a disability, or they don't physically like sex very much--perhaps sex is painful, or they just have a low sex drive. Or maybe you just feel its fair to mock someone that believes in personal modesty and isn't down with fucking for a crowd, or is in a happily monogamous relationship and has no wish to have sex with others or to have sex for the purview of others, or doesn't want to have ritual sex when they don't *really* know if they can trust the others involved.

Yes, ritual sex and sex magic are both ways to raise energy--quite powerful, in fact. And to be perfectly honest, rather easy...it doesn't take much effort, just a knack of timing and a whole lot of fun. But not everyone is at a position in their life, nor will some of them *ever* be in a position in their life to want or need sex magic or ritual sex to raise energy. If they aren't comfortable with ritual sex or sex magic, its not going to be any good anyhow. There are plenty of other ways to raise energy for magic for those individuals. Whatever their reasons may be (and the likeliness of getting to someone's real problem when you are rolling your eyes at their stated one is pretty low), it is nothing to mock.

[GabrielWithoutWings]

Re: Sex Ritual -- the Controversy!

I never really got into sex magick, even as a passing interest. I will generally have interest in most types of alternative theology and ritual. For some reason, sex magick is one where I have zero interest. In every Left-Hand Path book I've read, there's always a chapter on sex magick. I usually skip it because my eyes start to glaze over.

I don't consider myself a prude. I just consider sex wonderfully ordinary. If there was an entire chapter on using magick by sneezing or sitting down to eat, I'd probably skip that as well.

That's one of the many reasons why I ultimately decided against being a Thelemite. The entire religious paradigm seems to be a giant sex ritual. I can understand why Crowley would be attracted to that, given his upbringing.

That, and I'm not going to eat my own sperm. I'm not going to eat anyone else's sperm, either. No thanks.

[HavaSpell]

Re: Sex Ritual -- the Controversy!

Personally, I think sexual energy is some of the strongest, fastest, most powerful energy you can raise.
Everything that is alive, plants, animals, humans, microorganisms, cells - Everything is sexual.
The primary purpose of living things is to use their energy to multiply in some form or fashion.
Sex is a very powerful thing, and if used appropriately, can be a wonderfully magickal tool.
I'd suggest practice sexual rituals/magic on your own before trying to share that kind of energy in a group though.
For a group that has never done such a thing before (orgiastic ritual, etc), maybe the group should start with something akin to a mass solo-session. One where everyone is 'skyclad'/nude and performs on themselves. As it becomes a normal thing amongst the group, it is sure to grow in to more if it's meant to.
Just my suggestion.

[Jera]

Re: Sex Ritual -- the Controversy!

Sex rituals and magick is a very personal thing to me. I would not be comfortable with ritual nudity, even with close friends. I was invited to a skyclad ritual by a couple of friends and I turned them down, not because I thought they would look at me or there would be anything dodgy going on, but simply because I am uncomfortable with my own nudity in front of other people (if others want to be nude, go ahead I have no issue). I would only participate in sex magick or rituals with a partner as I am a monogamous person. I think Thalassa made some very important points which I can identify with, and I would not appreciate someone rolling their eyes at me because they happen to be more comfortable with their bodies. I feel every person's level of comfort should be respected and not judged, but it seems that there's a school of thought that says if you follow a pagan path you must automatically feel comfortable with public sex and nudity, which I don't agree with at all. It's all about how you personally feel, without anybody trying to convince you otherwise. Your body is a sacred thing and only you have the right to decide what is done with it and how far you will go, in any belief or situation.

[Alienist]

Re: Sex Ritual -- the Controversy!

I feel it's unnecessary. This is probably a stereotype but the people I've seen do it are...unethical and do sex just for the sake of it. Lot of them also mix drugs into it as well. Sex is of course natural but I would only do it with my girl and nobody else and I do not do groups or orgies or whatever. I also actually care about the woman and not use her for only sex. It is a sacred and natural thing but I see little to no point in doing it in a ritual. I understand the power behind it and having sex itself is a ritual is it not? You do certain actions to create life.

[feathered_regalia]

Re: Sex Ritual -- the Controversy!

I've read this thread once before, couldn't think of anything to say about it. Reading it again, I still don't have an opinion other than if it's your thing, whatever. Personally, I have no problems raising energy and sending out spells without it, so, for my comfort zone, it's kind of a 'no thank you'. Not even skyclad. But for the people who are into it, props to you. Have fun .