I'm a sexy feminist!

[Seeking a Religion]

Re: I'm a sexy feminist!

Scenario: A woman uses her sex appeal to get a promotion. To get her car washed with a discount. To cut in line at the market. Is she a feminist for using her sex?


Do feminist believe a woman can have an equal footing by using their sexuality? Or are we supposed to use everything but our sexuality?

Can feminist be religious? Even in a religion that is male dominated.

Can feminist be an at home mother who conservatively believes the father is the head of household?

Wow...very profound questions here. In order and in my opinion......

1. We certainly live in an American culture where female sexuality in particular is idolized and considered highly titillating to the senses . It is often used as a means of becoming more popular , selling more movies and DVD's , and everything from toothpaste to car spark plugs. What I believe is this fundamentally : Women have been sexually exploited and a good many women have used it to get whatever power, control, prestige, money they can from it regardless of it being ethical or not. I think when key morals and principles get sidestepped, it becomes dangerous for women in this arena. The constant barrage of relentless sexy advertisements from our mass media over the past 5 decades has led to a terrible surge in date rape, abuse, and mysogomy . A womans stay in a 4 year University now runs a chance of abuse of 1 in 3 --------- sexual hedonism because women allow it amounts to 4000 developing human beings being ripped to shreds at the hands of a 'Doctor' while in the womb ---- and Teenage boys and girls are growing up not realizing the need for a personal relationship with the opposite sex because each are seen as just a temporary piece of genital satisfaction. There is most definetly a downside to the hyper sexual climate that Feminists seek for personal gain.

2. The bottom line with men is : They respect a woman who respects herself. If shes loose sexually then the man will oblige her but will come away not respecting her or holding her in any sort of high esteem. It is within every man to find disdain toward a woman who shows carelessness, disrespect, and lack of control toward the way she behaves. In fact, it only serves to increase the exploitation of such women. Such wayward women are duped into thinking this is how you get and keep a guy ------------ aint so . Once he gets bored hes out of there.

3. Feminism to me, is an offshoot of Secular Humanism putting man (woman) in complete authority so he/she can live as they like supposedly unencumbered by consequences (the popular mantra of 'so long as nobody gets hurt' ). People, many people..have gotton hurt from not wanting to obey absolute sexual mores. That's been Americas downfall with the proven std epidemic now with 1 out of every 4 adult americans and many many teens and millions dying prematurely from sexual AIDS contraction.

4. A stay at home wife / mother can have feminist overtones even if it doesn't include sexual relativism . In fact, more n more women who are wives and mothers are having adulterious affairs in the workplace and beyond today and even if they are faithful to their marriage vows, the climate at home isn't conducive to harmony with the woman vying for power, control, egotism.

5. Ive not met many Feminists who allow their husbands to take on the traditional role of husbandry . Its usually in conflict to the Feminists strong willed nature to never trust a man entirely and for her to be a provider unto herself . Feminism doesn't promote willful submission for the husband to be provider and protector of the family....its a situation today that many marriages face and it only causes conflict and chaos because the man cant be who he is wired to be in a foundational sense.

Summary...my opinion is that Feminism overall has been bad for America. Especially in relationships with men . It may be good for voting priveldges , etc....but basically it lends itself to chaos , dissension, narcissism, hedonism, in a society. All that said, im am for a woman displaying her feminine side concerning physical beauty , charm, intuition , softness, skills , etc... but the hyper sexuality that women have bought into so they can be like an irresponsible man in this regard has only served to destroy the moral fabric of our nation, families, and children . HOW women in a given society use their sexuality determines the sexual climate of a Nation .... women hold an enormous amount of responsibilitly in this regard. ; a Nation that has a high concentration per capita of female sexual immorality or perversion is going to be a Nation that has eroded values, principles, and constructs needed for civility and proper raising of children.

[habbalah]

Re: I'm a sexy feminist!

This question comes up in the BDSM scene: can a woman who is submissive to a man really call herself a feminist?

My answer is yes, because she chooses the man she gives her submission to. She's not forced, and she's not doing it because she thinks that's the way it ought to be.

I got a great discount on a print once because the guy running the booth thought I was cute, so what can I say? And honestly, for any gender, sex is a tool in your arsenal. I don't think you should use it for everything--you wouldn't use only a hammer to fix everything--but if it won't harm you, the other person, or your career, go for it.

Of course a feminist can be religious. I understand what a lot of organized religions say about a woman's place (and some that don't, but men force them into it anyway), but if a woman chooses to stay in that religion with that knowledge, it doesn't make her less of a feminist.

Basically, for me, it comes down to choice. Do you choose to do x because it's what you want and what makes sense for you, or are you doing it because you feel that you are supposed to or other people are telling you you need to be in that role?

[DanieMarie]

Re: I'm a sexy feminist!

Summary...my opinion is that Feminism overall has been bad for America. Especially in relationships with men . It may be good for voting priveldges , etc....but basically it lends itself to chaos , dissension, narcissism, hedonism, in a society. All that said, im am for a woman displaying her feminine side concerning physical beauty , charm, intuition , softness, skills , etc... but the hyper sexuality that women have bought into so they can be like an irresponsible man in this regard has only served to destroy the moral fabric of our nation, families, and children . HOW women in a given society use their sexuality determines the sexual climate of a Nation .... women hold an enormous amount of responsibilitly in this regard. ; a Nation that has a high concentration per capita of female sexual immorality or perversion is going to be a Nation that has eroded values, principles, and constructs needed for civility and proper raising of children.

I think there is a lot wrong with your whole post, but I don't really have time right now to get into it all. This is the issue I have the most trouble with, though. Here's why:

Ultimately, it seems what you're you're saying is that the kind of female sexuality in the mainstream media is destructive, and that feminism has played a big role in that. The problem with that is that the kind of female sexuality in the mainstream media is rarely the kind of sexuality that feminists promote. It's not that feminists don't like the idea of a woman displaying her sexuality (though, some don't)...it's more a matter of whether or not she plays an active role in her sexuality. Most images in the media are pretty objectifying. They're not really women putting their own sexuality forward; they're men gazing at women. There's a huge difference there. To me, I see such a massive difference between things like porn produced and directed by women, nude photos photographed by women, burlesque, etc and the sort of "sex sells" culture that we see every day. Huge, huge difference.

[Northman]

Re: I'm a sexy feminist!

Never understood feminism I understand that footing hasn't always been equal in the whole male female ratio . I personally think women and men should be equal along with straights and gays transgendered people and cisgender people . Its honestly crazy how people think one is better then the other do to completely irrational logic. And if a women wants to use her sex appeal to get a promotion then I give her the best of luck and hope who ever she is trying to sway ain't gay even though that would be beyond funny

Preach it

[Dukali]

Re: I'm a sexy feminist!

Feminism here in Sweden has totally got me against the idea of Feminism. I understand women want equal rights as men. Then shouldn't they just shoot for equality? Here in Sweden, the feminists actually point out the fact that all men need to be castrated so they won't get the urge to rape a woman. What? I do not understand feminism today. Feminists here make men seem disgusting, the most vile things on Earth. Really? There are foundations to help women with heart problems and women with cancer. That's great and all but what about men? They get heart problems and cancer too, why not have a fund for them as well? Feminism, to me, is all very one sided. Let's say a woman gets spit in the face by a man here, the man gets imprisonment. Oh, but if the woman did that, she has the right to. I do not and will not ever understand this logic, and because of these "Feminists" I do not and will not call myself one.

Life requires balance, not one side. We need men just as much as we need women. Yes men rape women, but women also rape men. Do you ever hear about that though? No. Why not? Rape is rape no matter who it is done to. I know it's not all about rape and what not, but these are just some examples. I don't know how feminism works in other countries, but in this one, it is insane and very unfair and illogical.

[Medusa]

Re: I'm a sexy feminist!

Being a female is your gender. It is not your excuse to be an idiot.

[Odahviing]

Re: I'm a sexy feminist!

Wow...very profound questions here. In order and in my opinion......

1. We certainly live in an American culture where female sexuality in particular is idolized and considered highly titillating to the senses . It is often used as a means of becoming more popular , selling more movies and DVD's , and everything from toothpaste to car spark plugs. What I believe is this fundamentally : Women have been sexually exploited and a good many women have used it to get whatever power, control, prestige, money they can from it regardless of it being ethical or not. I think when key morals and principles get sidestepped, it becomes dangerous for women in this arena. The constant barrage of relentless sexy advertisements from our mass media over the past 5 decades has led to a terrible surge in date rape, abuse, and mysogomy . A womans stay in a 4 year University now runs a chance of abuse of 1 in 3 --------- sexual hedonism because women allow it amounts to 4000 developing human beings being ripped to shreds at the hands of a 'Doctor' while in the womb ---- and Teenage boys and girls are growing up not realizing the need for a personal relationship with the opposite sex because each are seen as just a temporary piece of genital satisfaction. There is most definetly a downside to the hyper sexual climate that Feminists seek for personal gain.

2. The bottom line with men is : They respect a woman who respects herself. If shes loose sexually then the man will oblige her but will come away not respecting her or holding her in any sort of high esteem. It is within every man to find disdain toward a woman who shows carelessness, disrespect, and lack of control toward the way she behaves. In fact, it only serves to increase the exploitation of such women. Such wayward women are duped into thinking this is how you get and keep a guy ------------ aint so . Once he gets bored hes out of there.

3. Feminism to me, is an offshoot of Secular Humanism putting man (woman) in complete authority so he/she can live as they like supposedly unencumbered by consequences (the popular mantra of 'so long as nobody gets hurt' ). People, many people..have gotton hurt from not wanting to obey absolute sexual mores. That's been Americas downfall with the proven std epidemic now with 1 out of every 4 adult americans and many many teens and millions dying prematurely from sexual AIDS contraction.

4. A stay at home wife / mother can have feminist overtones even if it doesn't include sexual relativism . In fact, more n more women who are wives and mothers are having adulterious affairs in the workplace and beyond today and even if they are faithful to their marriage vows, the climate at home isn't conducive to harmony with the woman vying for power, control, egotism.

5. Ive not met many Feminists who allow their husbands to take on the traditional role of husbandry . Its usually in conflict to the Feminists strong willed nature to never trust a man entirely and for her to be a provider unto herself . Feminism doesn't promote willful submission for the husband to be provider and protector of the family....its a situation today that many marriages face and it only causes conflict and chaos because the man cant be who he is wired to be in a foundational sense.

Summary...my opinion is that Feminism overall has been bad for America. Especially in relationships with men . It may be good for voting priveldges , etc....but basically it lends itself to chaos , dissension, narcissism, hedonism, in a society. All that said, im am for a woman displaying her feminine side concerning physical beauty , charm, intuition , softness, skills , etc... but the hyper sexuality that women have bought into so they can be like an irresponsible man in this regard has only served to destroy the moral fabric of our nation, families, and children . HOW women in a given society use their sexuality determines the sexual climate of a Nation .... women hold an enormous amount of responsibilitly in this regard. ; a Nation that has a high concentration per capita of female sexual immorality or perversion is going to be a Nation that has eroded values, principles, and constructs needed for civility and proper raising of children.

I don't have much time so I'll try to keep this short. I disagree with pretty much everything in your post.

See, I don't believe that men are hardwired to take on a dominant role against women either socially or sexually - just as I don't believe that women are hardwired to be gentle and submissive. I think that either gender as a group feel they are hardwired in a particular way mostly because they have been socially conditioned, on various levels, throughout their lives to be so. Cultural influence is very, very powerful when it comes to how people think and feel - especially when breaking away from the social norm leads to various kinds of ostrasization. A good example is how the idea of men naturally disdaining a woman with an active sexuality seems to me a form of social power play, a way to stay in control, that members of a social group (in this case men) have been socially conditioned to use to mantain the status quo. A status quo that I believe is not natural but learned.

Also, to me it seems absurd that the discussion always boils down to the female sexuality and how "messed up" it has become. I don't see why the discussion always goes there. If a woman feels compelled to use her sexuality or her body as a tool to control men - doesn't that have to do with mens sexuality as well? Only that doens't upset people as much. Mens sexuality is in the foreground and has been for a long time. It is not shameful for a man to admit to his sexuality as opposed to women who are still expected to keep it locked up in the back room - for fear of disdain/ridicule/disgust. It is strange to me that we so willingly encourage an active sexualtiy in men but disdain the same behaviour from women... An unhealthy social norm, if you ask me.

Ok, getting a little off topic now, beginning to ramble. Odahviing out.

[thalassa]

"

(source)

[thalassa]

Re: I'm a sexy feminist!

1. We certainly live in an American culture where female sexuality in particular is idolized and considered highly titillating to the senses . It is often used as a means of becoming more popular.

...ect, ect

I'm going to throw the BS flag here. Our family does historical reenacting...this means a lot of reading of primary sources--letters, diaries, etc and academic sources based on those primary sources. The idea that sexual exploitation is somehow new or worse because of feminism or media in the past 50 years is patently false, as it the idea that there has been a "surge" in rape and abuse (and mysogomy, really? people got married because they HAD to, and maybe a few because they wanted to...now that people don't HAVE to marry, they don't UNLESS they want to). Women have been raped (men too) since the dawn of time. The difference between now and 50, 100, 150, or 1000 years ago is that women can finally talk about it and have a chance to get justice. Today, woman have enough worth that they can be open about the abuses perpetuated against them (and that also allows men to be open about the abuses perpetuated against them). Women have used what they had to to have security--just as men have. And to use this as the reasoning for abortion being some modern evil...please do some research on the history of abortion, which has been happening just as long as there has been sex (and more often, because there wasn't reliable birth control).

The bottom line is that women have for centuries been largely powerless in Western society. Historically men (as a group) haven't every respected any woman that didn't meet their idea of ideal womanhood, which was what based on dominance and control, chaste or not. Chastity isn't a sign that someone respects themselves, male or female. Personally, I disdain a male that thinks of a woman's worth as connected to what she does with her vagina. If he gets bored because she puts out, then he's pathetic and lacking in honor. Attitudes like this are why women are objectified, not why they are not.

So-called "sexual mores" are an invented construct of human culture. They aren't absolute, and they sure as hell aren't based in human health or any rational basis. So-called "morals" are based in biological denial-ism and empirical ignorance and teach people to hate themselves under the guise of "purity". People have sex whether they think its moral or not, and failure to teach healthy sexuality and body image in our culture cause the objectification of women. Furthermore, the idea that humanism (secular or otherwise) is the origin of personal irresponsibility is just plain logical fallacy.

Any you damn well can bet that I don't submit to my husband. And I'm pretty sure he'd divorce me if I did. A real man (since it seems like we are playing that game here) wants a real woman--someone that is independent, intelligent, and enough alone...a real man wants a real woman that CHOOSES him and wants him for who he is--a flawed individual, just as she is, that can be in an equitable partnership based in mutual respect, communication and cooperation. A real man wants a woman that is realistic enough to know that life happens, and the future is uncertain, and to know that if something should happen between them (or to him) that she can take care of their family without having to resort to finding someone to "take care of her". A real man isn't threatened by a woman that is in control of her sexuality, that is economically independent, and that knows her own mind. A real man thinks "hey, its pretty awesome that she loves me". And I know this, because I'm married to a real man.

Men that perpetuate the stereotype and base their worth in being dominant and judge women on their sexuality are the problem, not women that want to be treated like human beings.

[MaskedOne]

Re: I'm a sexy feminist!

3. Feminism to me, is an offshoot of Secular Humanism putting man (woman) in complete authority so he/she can live as they like supposedly unencumbered by consequences (the popular mantra of 'so long as nobody gets hurt' ). People, many people..have gotton hurt from not wanting to obey absolute sexual mores. That's been Americas downfall with the proven std epidemic now with 1 out of every 4 adult americans and many many teens and millions dying prematurely from sexual AIDS contraction.

http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/statistics/basics/ataglance.html

The above link has some stats on AIDS. Let me summarize the key points for you.

1) In 2011, less than 20,000 US citizens with the disease died. Of the 13,834 people with AIDS that died in that year, not all deaths were necessarily due to the disease. If you died in a car crash but were HIV positive, then you were added to the list. Oh just to be thorough, less than a million US citizens with AIDs have died at all as of 2011.

2) Less than 2 million US citizens had AIDS in 2011.

3) HIV incidence (new infections) at the time was around 50k per year this means that unless incidence has gone up dramatically, there are still less than 2 million AIDS cases in the US.

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/us.html

the above link is the CIA world factbook info on the US

apparently there are over 120 million US residents aged 25 - 54

Your numbers on AIDS deaths are so horrendously bad that I'm having trouble believing you are this innaccurate by accident.

[anunitu]

Re: I'm a sexy feminist!

I will admit that American culture sells a lot of what I would call "BS imagery",that is we push "fashion",and in many ways a dimorphic body image to both genders. The average human of ether gender seldom fit what is sold in "Fashion" mags. So many people try to "Be" "perfect" when in fact there is no such human on the planet. Women might be sold the idea that feminism is something it is not. Equality has little to do with being "superior" to the other gender,it has to do with equal opportunity in being accepted for jobs,and pay. Gender images have over the years been equated with what is proper,as when I first started working at a job where Women were REQUIRED to wear a dress and heels on the job,and were seldom considered for anything that was not as a secretary. Times change,and hopefully people evolve from these social restraints that restrict people from being more and better elements of society.

[kalynraye]

Re: I'm a sexy feminist!

Summary...my opinion is that Feminism overall has been bad for America. Especially in relationships with men . It may be good for voting priveldges , etc....but basically it lends itself to chaos , dissension, narcissism, hedonism, in a society. All that said, im am for a woman displaying her feminine side concerning physical beauty , charm, intuition , softness, skills , etc... but the hyper sexuality that women have bought into so they can be like an irresponsible man in this regard has only served to destroy the moral fabric of our nation, families, and children . HOW women in a given society use their sexuality determines the sexual climate of a Nation .... women hold an enormous amount of responsibilitly in this regard. ; a Nation that has a high concentration per capita of female sexual immorality or perversion is going to be a Nation that has eroded values, principles, and constructs needed for civility and proper raising of children.

I'm just going to hope your blowing smoke out of your holes and just trying to cause raucous.

[Medusa]

Re: I'm a sexy feminist!

What exactly is female perversion? Because I feel I might have a touch of this.

[kalynraye]

Re: I'm a sexy feminist!

Can't we just be perverted? Cause I'm definitely perverted. It makes the day more enjoyable to have a dirty mind. How is female perversion different from male perversion?

[habbalah]

Re: I'm a sexy feminist!

What exactly is female perversion? Because I feel I might have a touch of this.

It sounds kind of like a girl punk band.