Emma Watson speaks at the UN

[DanieMarie]

Re: Emma Watson speaks at the UN

Apparently, the nude photo threat was a false flag operation by a marketing firm.

Ugh. WTF is wrong with some marketing professionals? Seriously.

I studied marketing and still do a lot of work in the field (in the form of copywriting and online content). I just don't get what goes through these peoples' heads. There is supposed to be an ethical line, but that keeps getting ignored in favour of getting clicks.

[Denarius]

Re: Emma Watson speaks at the UN

Ugh. WTF is wrong with some marketing professionals? Seriously.

Well, it seems that the false flag operation was also a hoax and Rantic does not exist. All I know at this point is that we're being bamboozled and this entire situation is bonkers.

[anunitu]

Re: Emma Watson speaks at the UN

Just keep thing Tri-boobs....Oh no mr. bill,its raining pigs feet....

[Doc_Holliday]

Re: Emma Watson speaks at the UN

Good for her, a fine speech. She seemed quite touched by the topic evidently.

[Heka]

Every time I see a picture of her on this topic I wonder:

What came first, Emma or Hermione?

[Daughter of Toothless]

Re: Emma Watson speaks at the UN

I honestly have complex feelings about this speech. While she does bring up some fair points, she also has a lot of flawed logic as well such as her belief in the wage gap (which is just a statistic and nothing more) and believing the fight for women's rights, when it was really all the misandric beliefs that mainstream feminism have held. Examples: #killallmen #maletears and even bigger issues that the Duluth Model and Tender Years Doctrine have caused.

"Women are choosing not to become feminists." So? Is feminism somehow the panacea to every problem? Is it going to save us all from eternal damnation? People act like not identifying as a feminist is the worst thing you can do for equality, like a slap in the face. This is one of the problems I have with feminism. It's a religion to most of the feminists I've seen. That if you're not feminist, you're a sexist. I hate that mentality. "If you're not a Christian, you worship Satan!" Yes, it's the same logic. Neither men or women should have to identify as something they don't want to in order to prove they are for equality. Can't they just, I dunno, actually fight for equality? :P

[DanieMarie]

Re: Emma Watson speaks at the UN

The wage gap isn't just a statistic...

[Daughter of Toothless]

Re: Emma Watson speaks at the UN

Women generally earn less money than men because generally, they choose lesser paying jobs. I'm not saying that's always the case. In fact, My aunt was paid more than my uncle because she chose a higher paying job than he did. It had nothing to do with gender, just the jobs that they chose. There's nothing wrong with that, because both were perfectly happy with their jobs.

If a company paid a man more than they did a woman for the exact same amount of work and hours, it would be illegal. I'm no expert in the justice system, but you could probably take them to court.

[DanieMarie]

Re: Emma Watson speaks at the UN

It would technically be illegal, but it happens all the time.

I'm not sure how it is where you live, but over here, companies are legally allowed to add clauses to work contracts that forbid employees from discussing their salaries, even with other employees. It IS illegal to pay employees who do the same job less than others based on their gender, ethnicity, nationality, or anything like that, but it still happens because it's just hard to find out how much your colleagues are paid. Even if you do find out, it can be tricky to do anything about it. For example, a friend of mine worked for a company and somehow they found out that the German team was paid more than the English team for the -exact- same job (they just produced content in English instead of German). I know that that's not a man-woman thing, but it's the same idea. If something like that -does- come out as it did in this case, it's really hard to do anything about it because you'd have to prove that it was true without them finding out that you broke your contract, which can cause you to lose your job or get sued. So yeah, it happens.

In Germany, at least we have a law that technically forbids a wage gap. Some countries do not have such laws. This speech was at the UN, so it's not fair to say that just because there's no wage gap in one country that it isn't a problem in others. It's a problem in a lot of countries, even developed ones.

A number of issues also come into play. Men get promoted and get raises more often than women. Now, it IS true that men ask for them more often than women do, but a few recent studies pointed out that when women ask for raises, they often get viewed negatively for it (at least in certain fields). So it's really a "damned if you do and damned if you don't" sort of situation.

I also disagree that women always choose lower paid work. Wage gaps exist when you compare individual fields as well. I realize that this is often because things like childcare hold women back in their careers, but fixing that problem is also a major goal of feminism.

[loststarshine]

Re: Emma Watson speaks at the UN

I know of other companies here that do not allow you to discuss how much you are being paid. I know of cases where a women applies to a work force that is more dominated by men like mechanics. A female mechanic seems to have to be very knowledgable to get the job compared to a man who has less knowledge but will be offered the job. Similar to what I have seen in the nursing field.

[Hawkfeathers]

Re: Emma Watson speaks at the UN

If a company paid a man more than they did a woman for the exact same amount of work and hours, it would be illegal. I'm no expert in the justice system, but you could probably take them to court.

Once, after I left a job, I found out that the new hire (less experience/education/qualifications than I had) was being paid almost twice what I'd been paid. "Because he's a man and will have to support a family." Small business - gotta love it. And I mean SMALL - husband/wife, and 3 -6 others. These little dictators can do whatever they want!

[Arella]

Re: Emma Watson speaks at the UN

Once, after I left a job, I found out that the new hire (less experience/education/qualifications than I had) was being paid almost twice what I'd been paid. "Because he's a man and will have to support a family." Small business - gotta love it. And I mean SMALL - husband/wife, and 3 -6 others. These little dictators can do whatever they want!

"'...Will have to support a family.'" And what do they think us women are doing, working for our freaking health?! Idiots. :noway:

[Daughter of Toothless]

Re: Emma Watson speaks at the UN

@DanieMarie: Honestly, I don't know how it is in Germany, so please forgive me if I sound ignorant. I had thought you were talking about countries like America. So I apologize for that. But as you said, it's hard to find out how other workers are paid. So how do you know that it's not the same job, same work, same hours? You say men get promoted and raises more often than women, but are you sure it's not because they're doing more work, like extra hours, extra tasks, etc? Don't get me wrong, I don't think it's right that women should get negatively viewed for asking for a raise. (Shaming those who dare to ask questions is wrong and I've been shamed for it lots of times, especially when it took heaps of courage to ask in the first place.) I would agree that women don't always choose lower paid work, which is why I stated that it wasn't always the case.

[thalassa]

Re: Emma Watson speaks at the UN

@DanieMarie: Honestly, I don't know how it is in Germany, so please forgive me if I sound ignorant. I had thought you were talking about countries like America.

In America, where it is (technically) illegal to discriminate in pay, women (when controlled for all other factors, including childbearing, etc) still make less than men in equivalent jobs (something ranging between 91 cents or 80 cents on the dollar, depending on the study)--basically, "work patterns" only explain away about half pay gap when equivalent jobs are compared.

When you look at a study--ANY study, you need to find the original study and read the methodology involved and think about the motivations of the people doing the study. They should explain what data they used, how they controlled for the additional variables, how they analyzed the statistics, etc. These studies generally don't just look at "all women's wages" vs "all mens wages"--they compare commensurate types of jobs in the same career fields requiring the same education level.

...and also, if we (in the US) had more acceptance and accessibility to equivalent paternal leave, the effect of maternal leave should be mitigated if its a matter of time off vs discrimination.

Plus, ya know...I was a woman in the military. I got paid the same thing as a man in my pay grade. That doesn't mean that there wasn't discrimination when it came time for evaluations (which determine, for a large part, promotion).

[Denarius]

Re: Emma Watson speaks at the UN

It's not just men vs women. Race, age, sexuality, height, weight and dozens of other arbitrary conditions also affect people's wages.

The gender wage gap is no more significant than the race gap or the gay wage gap. They are all shrinking though, especially the gay wage gap.