Morality: What is YOUR Line?

[Willow]

Re: Morality: What is YOUR Line?

Don't tell me how to be and I won't tell you how to be.
Lying never ends well.
Unnecessary pain is not helpful to anyone. And honestly, if you understood the kind of pain you were inflicting first-hand I doubt you would want to inflict it on someone else.

[monsno_leedra]

Re: Morality: What is YOUR Line?

I think its a mistake that our culture considers compassion and mercy to be something that is weak, something that can make you a "doormat" (to borrow your phrase). Compassion and mercy always comes at the cost of something else. And sometimes the priority in whom we have compassion and mercy for needs to be ourself.

I think at times our society considers compassion and mercy to be more of an enabler than a weakness. We (collective) allow people to take advantage of us and play games as we collectively lower our expectations and requirements for them. If they don't, won't or will not meet some norm instead of holding them accountable or making them rise to the situation many times via compassion and mercy we tend to lower the bar for them. See it especially in education where standards and expectations are lowered where we think we're being compassionate or merciful by taking into account illness, health, background, social and cultural norms, racial and ethical expectations of a given people, etc as justification for lowering expectations or measurements.

I think it also applies to disabilities and people who have them. Doesn't matter whether they be physical and visible through deformity or invisible due to physical, mental or psychological. It seems, to me anyway, that many times disability is based upon how one became disabled and how they are given support. Seen a lot of people who get flack for being disabled and appearing to exploit the system for every cent they can get. Seen other's who were military injured and it's all Ok and they should be given even more. Gets interesting when the so called healthy person is struggling to provide and survive and the disabled or poor are getting support that the healthy person / family is not eligible for themselves.

[Kiesha'ra]

Re: Morality: What is YOUR Line?

The do unto other's phrase crosses my mind in this. The problem with morality is it is based on point of view ( moral relativism... relative to that individual) some may be inherent while others are taught. One man's truth is another man's lie, morality works the same way and is very diverse. I'm going to go off on a tangent here (not a rant because I want people to THINK), probably not make many friends because of it. Mind you this has to do with morality (but not mine personally, I just want to put this out there).

The libertine spirit of live and let live which moral relativism seems to in theory advocate is indeed a virtue in some cases,particularly when the government is involved (such as out-lawing habits and vices which to many but not all see as harmless). The dangers of moral relativism are multi faceted and are too numerous to name.

It appeals to peoples selfishness:There are many good yet misguided people who identify themselves as moral relativists, but there also many people who identify with moral relativism out of their own selfishness.These people believe that because the world only revolves around them and them alone that they can arbitrarily pick and choose which principles to follow with little regard for how their actions affect others. Example: (and please don't go off on me for this it's just an example)...Abortion on demand is justified simply because it is "mybody" and can "do what I want with it", "its just a clump of cells", starving Terri Schiavo to death without even a shred of evidence that she didn't want to be kept alive in persistent vegetative state is justified because "she is really alive" "she is just a vegetable". Moral relativism like other ideologies which belong in the trash bin of history like communism, fascism and religious fundamentalism can be used to justify anything no matter how brutal, cruel and inhumane it is. Terrorists use this by the way. Thomas Moore made a very good point of this in his book "Utopia" which outlines a socialist state.


Let us now add in humanism and religion, both advance a moral code which like all moral codes make explicit judgments about what is right and wrong while moral relativism says that no claim of anything being right or wrong is legitimate because everything is relative. In other words nobody has the right to condemn the horrible crimes of the AdolphHitlers of the world or praise the good works of the Mother Teresa's of the world because both Hitler and Mother Teresa have done what was"right for them". How anyone can claim with a straight face that this doesn't advocate anarchy is beyond me.


All truth is subjective. From any point of view at any given time any one thing can both be true and false. A majority of people would say it is true that to steal is wrong, and yet for the one stealing there may be nothing more right. From our subjective point of view we see that the person is taking what does not belong to them whereas from that persons subjective point of view they see only the need to feed their family, to get money for medicine, or even just to feel that high one more time. Who is right? Who is wrong morally?


There is a stance in Karate where one holds their hands in front of their face leaving only a small space between the thumbs to see out of. This stance is meant to show that, when you look at Mt. Fuji through obstructed vision you may miss the entire mountain. Inessence by taking a step back from your subjective point of view you see the whole, not only a fraction.

So, morality to me? My boundaries?.... doesn't matter because what is right in my eyes and humane in my eyes may not be or will ever be the same as yours. I just try to be a good human-being base upon instinct and thought.

***btw I think i just burned my brain on this one

[NeoPlatonic]

Re: Morality: What is YOUR Line?

Here's my morality in a nutshell:

1) Does doing this thing bring harm to another person? If yes, I try my best to not do it.
2) Does doing this thing bring harm to me? If yes, I try to avoid it.
3) Does doing this thing help another person? If yes, I try to do it.
4) Does not doing this thing bring harm to a person? If yes, I try to do it.

There are grey areas, of course, but those are the major guidelines. Compassion and mercy are very important to me, and I try to show them when I can. But I also was a doormat once in my life, and I don't let my compassion extend to you walking all over me. I'm also a strong believer in justice, and that inaction can be just as bad as deliberate cruel action at times.

Pretty much this. My case is a little more different to that, however. I was a doormat because I was taught to respect authority above anything ("if your teacher says 'jump on one leg' you do just that" used to say my mother) and while I try to remain to true to that, I no longer let people get away with insulting me.

On philosophical grounds I tend to agree on principle with some Christian virtues, but not all of them. Karma to me is a deceptive concept, so I never held it in high regard. I disagree with the Sikh and Buddhist views that all life is suffering (or that we are human merely to escape it's cycle).

[Medusa]

Re: Morality: What is YOUR Line?

Everyone is so moral.

Yup. Come on now. Are you always this moral?::

[B. de Corbin]

Re: Morality: What is YOUR Line?

Everyone is so moral.

Yup. Come on now. Are you always this moral?::

It's not always about what you do. Sometimes it's about what you try to do.

Besides, the occasional Bacchanalia and debauchery is fun.

[habbalah]

Re: Morality: What is YOUR Line?

It's not always about what you do. Sometimes it's about what you try to do.

Besides, the occasional Bacchanalia and debauchery is fun.

I attended a Bacchanal this summer! It was an experience.

[NeoPlatonic]

Re: Morality: What is YOUR Line?

Yup. Come on now. Are you always this moral?::

In my case, depends on the moral. Maybe I would scavenge or take similar actions to survive, but I would never resort to cannibalism.

[Näre]

Re: Morality: What is YOUR Line?

My moral: if it's fun, don't do it.
(Excluded coffee and computers.)

I have the most inofficial political party that has the following line: If it's fun, ban it.
You get extra points from all kinds of double standards and moralising.

[anunitu]

Re: Morality: What is YOUR Line?

The whole cannibalism thing...If you were REALLY starving,could you still hold to the no eating each other thing,even if said meal died from natural causes,and you yourself did not kill them...even a Vegen "Might" eat meat if there was no other food...hard to really say until you are faced with starvation for real...

[NeoPlatonic]

Re: Morality: What is YOUR Line?

Personally, I know I would not. I have not been faced with life-threatening starvation in the past but I know what it is to go on without food for some days, the last of which includes water. If I can avoid turning to eating bugs simply because I do not want to, then I can avoid eating the deceased for moral reasons.

Besides, I am rather stubborn in real life. That always helps with keeping your morals*.

*The only clear exception is the "no killing" rule. If it is a dangerous creature and it *can* harm me, then I try to remove it from my space or get away. If that fails, I kill them. I.e.: Spiders, somebody threatening my life, etc..

[anunitu]

Re: Morality: What is YOUR Line?

because it has happened in the past with some people,it is truly a moral dilemma. Like the Donner party thing...Life and death and all that.

[NeoPlatonic]

Re: Morality: What is YOUR Line?

Do not get me wrong: I understand why people do it and why they would do it again. It is that I would not do it. I believe I know myself well enough to say this.

[thalassa]

Re: Morality: What is YOUR Line?

Do not get me wrong: I understand why people do it and why they would do it again. It is that I would not do it. I believe I know myself well enough to say this.

...s'ok to to starve, someone has to go in the soup.

[anunitu]

Re: Morality: What is YOUR Line?

I remember the one walking dead episode where the sanctuary people tried to slaughter Rick and his peeps. And then BAD mama Carol comes busting in with her all out assault,saving everyone.