migrants:What to do...Europe needs to decide.

[anunitu]

Re: migrants:What to do...Europe needs to decide.

And not to forget the British had other things to also deal with. Like the trade in Opium on a world wide level,or trying to juggle so many "Acquired" places that did not care for British rule.

And the french and Spanish that so loved playing war games a sea...Their dance card was so full..and America most likely was not making them money,at least not enough..

[ThePaganMafia]

Re: migrants:What to do...Europe needs to decide.

I love the reference to NPS signs about animals in how we should treat war refugees.

[Tylluan Penry]

Re: migrants:What to do...Europe needs to decide.

Isn't it strange that the UK and the US, who are among those countries least likely to want to take in refugees of conflict, that they are so keen on starting illegal wars anyway? (Tony Blair, hang your head in shame).
Caring for one's fellow human beings is NOT weakness, it's strength. Banging a drum and going on about how protecting people 'does not arm them with the skills they need to live' is nonsense.

People may already have the skills. They may be too sick, disabled, old or traumatised to be able to use them any more.

And I would point out that most of us are only years away from old age. And only a heartbeat away from sudden, life changing sickness or disability.

[DragonsFriend]

Re: migrants:What to do...Europe needs to decide.

I understand what you are saying and there is validity to it. In the USA we have almost half the population on some kind of government handout. (I don't consider Social Security, unemployment and disability handouts) There are illegal aliens getting tax return checks when they have paid no taxes. We have the highest unemployment (much higher than reported) than we have ever had. There are few jobs and fewer good jobs for educated individuals. We do need more employers and more start-up businesses but the tax code here punishes new businesses. I know, I have owned three personal businesses of my own. It is even difficult to run a non-profit businesses because of the government paperwork associated with a non-profit. My wife and I ran a 501c3 non-profit corporation that I founded for seven years before we turned it over to new leadership when we moved three years ago.
We need more immigrants like we need a full nuclear exchange. We have few manufacturing jobs, there is little construction going on, and the aircraft industry is stagnant. We need to stop being the world police force and return to what we do best, innovate.

[Tylluan Penry]

Re: migrants:What to do...Europe needs to decide.

Fair enough. But a huge part of the world doesn't actually wish to be police by the US (or the UK for that matter.) The US may not have had an empire but it is seen as cosying up to brutal regimes (like the Saudis) and coming down hard on others that are really not that different. Over here in the UK we have a constant rhetoric of workers vs. shirkers, and strivers vs. skivers.
Actually (and here I can only speak for the UK) the biggest shirkers and skivers are the privilege elite and corporations who refuse to pay their share of taxes. There is more fiddling at the top than at the bottom.

But that diverges from the problem of immigration - although it is all bound up with it too. People fleeing wars need protection. They are our fellow human beings. The US (and the UK too) have space and resources to help (they have both certainly had and still have resources to get themselves involved in wars at the drop of a hat.) The money spent on armaments could and should (IMHO ) be better spent on helping people.

War makes a few people wealthy.
Peace brings prosperity to almost everyone.

[DanieMarie]

Re: migrants:What to do...Europe needs to decide.

I'd also like to point out yet -again- that almost no one who supports giving asylum and aid to refugees thinks that they should be on handouts forever.

As for issues regarding immigration and illegal immigration, that should probably go in the immigration thread, don't you think? This thread is about the refugee crisis in Europe. If you were here, especially if you were in Southern Europe (the hardest hit countries in Europe) or in Germany, Sweden, or France (among the very few wealthy countries that have actually tried to help in this situation), you'd understand why we're asking the rest of the rich world to step up. These are PEOPLE, and they have escaped a horrifying situation. At the same time, they are coming here in large masses and it's not exactly like they can just go home. So, what do we do? We should all be working together to help them. I can tell you as someone living somewhere that accepts thousands of refugees per WEEK that it is not scary. It will not financially ruin your country. It will not let loads of terrorists in. It will not be flooded with people who don't want to understand the culture or try to learn the language (hell, if they're coming to the UK, Canada, or the US, a good chunk of them -already- speak English). Most of you have space for them. Germany is far more densely populated than the US, Canada, or Australia (especially Canada and Australia, the two least densely populated countries in the entire world), and with an ageing population and a very extensive social state, it's not like we don't have a lot of other costs going on. We're still making it work, and you can too.

[Medusa]

Re: migrants:What to do...Europe needs to decide.

Yeah so. The USA is not exactly great at taking in refugees or our OWN crises.
Hurricane Katrina. I'm looking at you. The world should not look at the US for help on things. We really don't have our shit together. We just look pretty.

[monsno_leedra]

Re: migrants:What to do...Europe needs to decide.

Yeah so. The USA is not exactly great at taking in refugees or our OWN crises.
Hurricane Katrina. I'm looking at you. The world should not look at the US for help on things. We really don't have our shit together. We just look pretty.

Heck look at our infrastructure in most areas. Most area's we have housing shortages that have created a lot of our homeless and jacked up rental prices out the roof. A lot of our inner cities look like battlefields themselves with the destruction, decay and lack of prospect for the youth much less making jobs available to support ones family. We've got more families on foodstamps and assistance than we've had at any time in our history, with maybe the exception of the depression years.

That's not even counting our own disasters which haven't been recovered from. Ten years later and Katrina still hold sway along the gulf cost. Sandy still has been recovered from fully along the northeast sections of our country. The west and mid west suffering from drought conditions that are causing sever rationing and destruction of lands.

Sorry one thing history has shown over and over is a nation has to take care of its own before worrying about others. When its economic foundations, social foundations and infrastructure is breaking down you go down. It always amazes me how people scream the US needs to be doing more of this or that to aid and help people. Sorry the US needs to be worrying about its own people, its own issues and its own future before worrying about others. Sorry Kennedy politics of looking off shore and hoping your local problems go away in the process has not worked.

[DanieMarie]

Re: migrants:What to do...Europe needs to decide.

Yeah so. The USA is not exactly great at taking in refugees or our OWN crises.
Hurricane Katrina. I'm looking at you. The world should not look at the US for help on things. We really don't have our shit together. We just look pretty.

I don't just mean the US. Other countries are sucking hard at this too. The UK is in the EU and totally should be part of a joint solution to this issue, but the UK only wants to be part of the EU when it benefits the UK. Canada and Australia have tons of space and resources, but they're on a politically xenophobic track at the moment that as a citizen (of Canada at least) I find repulsive.

But I do think the US bears some responsibility in this as well. Refugees aren't just coming from Syria; lots are coming from Iraq too. The US played a huge role in that problem. Playing world police doesn't just mean marching into other countries when it suits you and leaving them to deal with the consequences.

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Sorry the US needs to be worrying about its own people, its own issues and its own future before worrying about others. Sorry Kennedy politics of looking off shore and hoping your local problems go away in the process has not worked.

Great. Then stop going to wars in foreign countries.

[Medusa]

Re: migrants:What to do...Europe needs to decide.

Maybe other countries should then stop asking us for help.

[B. de Corbin]

Re: migrants:What to do...Europe needs to decide.

Maybe other countries should then stop asking us for help.

and money...

[anunitu]

Re: migrants:What to do...Europe needs to decide.

I am all for no more stupid and EXPENSIVE wars...The politicians keep saying we can't afford this,we can't afford that..Then how did we afford a 10 year dual war that cost upwards of 1 trillion dollars.(might be 2 trillion)

Wonder where that huge deficit came from???

[Medusa]

Re: migrants:What to do...Europe needs to decide.

If we don't help we look like an asshole. If we help we have to be the god damn saviours of the world. We are just a country. Yeah we have freedom. But seriously? We are the Disneyland of countries. And at one point the line in our park is too long to open a ride somewhere else. Get yourself to Magic Mountain or something.

[anunitu]

Re: migrants:What to do...Europe needs to decide.

We need a bouncer like in front of a club,ya gotta show something interesting to get inside...

[Tylluan Penry]

Re: migrants:What to do...Europe needs to decide.

Sorry one thing history has shown over and over is a nation has to take care of its own before worrying about others. When its economic foundations, social foundations and infrastructure is breaking down you go down. It always amazes me how people scream the US needs to be doing more of this or that to aid and help people. Sorry the US needs to be worrying about its own people, its own issues and its own future before worrying about others. Sorry Kennedy politics of looking off shore and hoping your local problems go away in the process has not worked.

The US is one of the richest nations on earth, if not the richest. If people are homeless, on foodstamps or whatever, this is not the fault of immigrants. It's the fault of the greedy money grabbing elite and the corporations that are wringing your country dry. And yes, exactly the same can be said of here in the UK - only we're about 5th or 6th richest.


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The UK is in the EU and totally should be part of a joint solution to this issue, but the UK only wants to be part of the EU when it benefits the UK.

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Great. Then stop going to wars in foreign countries.

Oh God, yes. That's sooo true. We have an awful attitude within Europe. Nothing to be proud of at all.