migrants:What to do...Europe needs to decide.

[Medusa]

Re: migrants:What to do...Europe needs to decide.

The US is one of the richest nations on earth, if not the richest. If people are homeless, on foodstamps or whatever, this is not the fault of immigrants. It's the fault of the greedy money grabbing elite and the corporations that are wringing your country dry. And yes, exactly the same can be said of here in the UK - only we're about 5th or 6th richest.

I agree 100%. But it sorta pisses off residents if we are aiding other countries whilst stomping all over our very much in real dire need citizens. A sinking ship...hell a ship with just a hole can't be tugging along other ships in need.

We can't be the Sally Mae to the world.

It's not my fault when Disneyland is full and I can't come in. But that doesn't make Disneyland the great white enemy either.

[DragonsFriend]

Re: migrants:What to do...Europe needs to decide.

What I am hearing is two declarations here. I hear those that think all nations should be equally poor and those that believe that a nations wealth should go first to the citizens of that country.
I would love to hear what makes the USA the wealthiest country in the world... Is it the 18 trillion dollar debt that we have? Maybe it is the average income, forgetting the cost of living? Maybe it is the amount of food that we produce, ignoring the the cost of production? I know! it is the number of millionaires that live here, forgetting that the average cost of a home in some places is over half that amount.
We don't produce much in the way of consumer goods, our iron production is no where near the top production in the world, Our planes are so expensive that Boeing leases them instead of selling them and the taxes, though they are very high, leave a deficit balance every year. Our infrastructure is failing and there is no money to repair or rebuild.

What is it that makes us the wealthiest country in the world?

[Medusa]

Re: migrants:What to do...Europe needs to decide.

What is it that makes us the wealthiest country in the world?

[monsno_leedra]

Re: migrants:What to do...Europe needs to decide.

The US is one of the richest nations on earth, if not the richest. If people are homeless, on foodstamps or whatever, this is not the fault of immigrants. It's the fault of the greedy money grabbing elite and the corporations that are wringing your country dry. And yes, exactly the same can be said of here in the UK - only we're about 5th or 6th richest.
. ..

Rich, poor are subjective terms. Compared to other nations yes our income and such place us in a higher category. Yet when compared within our own society standards there is a very large disparity between what we call rich, poor, middle class, etc and how much each is hurting. Yet comparing the US's poor to say India's or Syria's is not a fair or valid comparison. It automatically tries to paint that emotional baggage that is generated when you paint society against society within different strata's. The same argument and play upon emotions when you try to compare say the dead and dying in Africa due to starvation and compare it to similar results in the US. The argument usually falling into the US can do more because we say you have more money so should go out of your way to aid those in Africa for instance.

It's like I recently read something where our government was talking about bringing 100,000 refugee's into the US and placing them on a reservation in Arizona. bet that is really going to help the Native nation that is already on it and struggling themselves. But hey everybody is screaming you have to help the refugee's from Syria and Iraq while ignoring your own needy.

[anunitu]

Re: migrants:What to do...Europe needs to decide.

Thing is we have become the land of many "Castles" to keep out the riff raff. The very rich isolate them selves from the vast population that must deal with not enough and prices that keep them from being able to advance..this is NOT a new thing,it has been before and it ended badly for the super rich...revolution in Russia,France with the people finally saying enough and heads rolled into baskets. Castles may keep the poor away for a while,BUT the army you want to protect you is a LOT of poor people wanting an education. and if you hurt their people(family) do not expect that they will still protect you,in France the army and police went with the people when the big revolution went down.

Learn from history..

[thalassa]

Re: migrants:What to do...Europe needs to decide.

Taxes are not high in the US...not compared to other industrialized nations or to ourselves since we've been industrialized. We get what we pay for...and we Americans are cheap bastards with a selfish toddler's manners.

[DanieMarie]

Re: migrants:What to do...Europe needs to decide.

Taxes are not high in the US...not compared to other industrialized nations or to ourselves since we've been industrialized. We get what we pay for...and we Americans are cheap bastards with a selfish toddler's manners.

Yep...you are by no means heavily taxed.

[Medusa]

Re: migrants:What to do...Europe needs to decide.

How dare us, right?:=I:

[DragonsFriend]

Re: migrants:What to do...Europe needs to decide.

In Washington state we pay over 50% of our income in the various taxes. If you look at all the "hidden" taxes that you pay you would be surprised at the amount of taxes that you pay.

[DanieMarie]

Re: migrants:What to do...Europe needs to decide.

Cite please.

[thalassa]

Re: migrants:What to do...Europe needs to decide.

Cite please.

Well (for an individual), first there's the federal taxes---BUT when people compare taxes on a historical or international level, they are usually comparing federal taxes, then there's the deductions for social security and medicare...then there's state income taxes (Washington state is one of 7 states without any individual income tax, and another 2 states have no taxes on paycheck income but still pay them on investments)...then there's local taxes--some municipalities have income taxes (most don't), then there's the property tax for your home/property, maybe personal property tax (we have that here--I pay a yearly tax on my car), and of course, sales taxes, which vary in where they go and who they go to and how much they are (gas, nicotine, and alcohol are higher).

Hubby and I are in the 25% bracket when we file jointly (but we withhold at the single rate), then we pay around 11% on anything we purchase (except for gas, which is more), and another 7% on the value of our vehicles yearly, we don't own property (but the people we rent from pay property tax)....maybe we pay about 33% if you add it all together. If you are in the very highest tax brackets (39.6% for people making over something in the 400k range depending on how you are filing...which is NO WHERE near what the highest tax bracket in 1957--92% federal tax rate for incomes of 200,000 (single and married filing separate)/300,000 (head of household)...inflation adjusted to around 1.72 million and just under 2.56 million) and live in a state with higher taxes and buy a lot of stuff or own a lot of property, then I can see *maybe* 50% of your gross income possibly being taxed--but there would be a lot of caveats being there.

Even so, its still less than most tax rates since WWI. And its still less than most industrialized nations.

[Tylluan Penry]

[DanieMarie]

Re: migrants:What to do...Europe needs to decide.

Well (for an individual), first there's the federal taxes---BUT when people compare taxes on a historical or international level, they are usually comparing federal taxes, then there's the deductions for social security and medicare...then there's state income taxes (Washington state is one of 7 states without any individual income tax, and another 2 states have no taxes on paycheck income but still pay them on investments)...then there's local taxes--some municipalities have income taxes (most don't), then there's the property tax for your home/property, maybe personal property tax (we have that here--I pay a yearly tax on my car), and of course, sales taxes, which vary in where they go and who they go to and how much they are (gas, nicotine, and alcohol are higher).

Hubby and I are in the 25% bracket when we file jointly (but we withhold at the single rate), then we pay around 11% on anything we purchase (except for gas, which is more), and another 7% on the value of our vehicles yearly, we don't own property (but the people we rent from pay property tax)....maybe we pay about 33% if you add it all together. If you are in the very highest tax brackets (39.6% for people making over something in the 400k range depending on how you are filing...which is NO WHERE near what the highest tax bracket in 1957--92% federal tax rate for incomes of 200,000 (single and married filing separate)/300,000 (head of household)...inflation adjusted to around 1.72 million and just under 2.56 million) and live in a state with higher taxes and buy a lot of stuff or own a lot of property, then I can see *maybe* 50% of your gross income possibly being taxed--but there would be a lot of caveats being there.

Even so, its still less than most tax rates since WWI. And its still less than most industrialized nations.

Gotcha...yep, definitely less than we pay. To break it down:

-Income tax runs between 14% and 45% depending on your income. You get around 8,300 Euro tax free (regardless of your income, and if that -is- your income, you do not pay taxes). The system is a bit complicated, though. You do have some deductions, but mostly instead of having deductions, you have rate reductions for various situations like having a spouse who earns less than you, being a single parent, etc. If you have a second job, you are tax class IV on your second job, which means that you pay -more- tax for the second income. A lot of other stuff that is deducted from taxes in the US and Canada is simply covered through state programs here, such as daycare.
-Solidarity tax of 5.5% to help pay for German re-unification on taxable income....it can be less if you make less money.
-Health insurance deductions, which are around 15.5% of your income, split between you and your employer (but if you're a freelancer like me, you get to pay all of it...yay!). You can opt out of this and get private insurance, which is cheaper at first, but it's a scam because your rate will go up as you age. Also, private insurance companies charge women more because they have babies. Because, you know, it only takes a woman to have a baby!
-Social security deductions of 18.7% split between you and your employer (if you're freelance and you voluntarily pay into it, you again have to pay all of it, which is why most freelancers do not pay into social security). Like health insurance, you can opt out and get a private social security plan, but like health insurance, I wouldn't advise it because what seems cheaper at first probably isn't cheaper down the road. Though if you're freelance it's probably your only shot at paying into a retirement system because 18.7% of your income is a lot of freaking money.
-Sales tax in Germany is 19% for regular goods and 7% for food, books, and a few other items deemed "necessary." We have some of the lowest rates in Europe.
-TV/Radio licence. This costs 17.89 per month per household, regardless of whether or not you own a TV or radio (it used to be optional, but they decided that probably everyone had at least a radio, which is probably true). It pays for public broadcasting. Most countries in Europe have TV/Radio licenses to pay for public broadcasting. Since these systems fund programming such Doctor Who and Radio Eins, I have no problem with them whatsoever.

Some taxes that don't affect everyone but still affect a LOT of people include:
-Land transfer tax, which is a tax on the title transfer after you buy a home. It can range from 4.5% of the purchase price to 6.5% of the purchase price (Berlin is 6%...I'm glad I dodged that bullet, as it used to be less).
-Property tax, which is graciously low here. The tax depends on how big the city is, what kind of dwelling it is (house, old apartment, new apartment). People in big cities and in apartments pay less, whereas people in houses in small towns pay more. It's not based on your income, though. I think it's based on the property value. Only around half of all Germans own their home, though.
-Gas tax. I don't know how much it is, but it's really high. Like, right now gas costs 1.30 Euro per LITER and most of it is tax. A lot of people don't drive here, but in the former West, most people do drive.
-Church tax. If you are Christian or Jewish and belong to a church or synagogue, you get to pay 8-9% of your income in church tax!
-If you are freelance, you have to incorporate 19% sales tax into all of your inter-Europe pricing.

We pay a LOT of tax. But, we pay fewer taxes than a lot of our neighbours. Our rates are generally lower and we don't pay things like council tax.

I'm also not complaining. I wish the system could do a better job of incorporating freelancers (artists and tradespeople get special unions they can join, which cover the employer's portion...I think we need to come up with similar systems to cover all freelance workers), but overall I don't feel overwhelmed by taxes and social contributions. We have a huge social state, which I really appreciate. When we have kids, we can send them to daycare for a very low cost, courtesy of the state. We don't have to set up a college fund for them, because German public universities don't charge tuition. If my skills become horribly outdated and I need to retrain for my job, there's probably a program for me somewhere.

[Medusa]

Re: migrants:What to do...Europe needs to decide.

So this is turning into that wonderful game of Que es mas Macho. Good to know.

Countries have taxes. Some are high. Some are low. And immigrants what now related to taxes?

[anunitu]

Re: migrants:What to do...Europe needs to decide.

Stuff happens in threads,almost every time the subject slips in to something else.