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Ahmed the Clock Maker

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    #16
    Re: Ahmed the Clock Maker

    Originally posted by Tylluan Penry View Post
    But - and this was my main gripe, once he was arrested, his parents should have been informed and he should have had an attorney present. Correct me if I'm wrong, but this was not done. And if it was not done, then terrorist or not, it should have been.
    In every case, the first thing done with a suspected bomb is to endure the safety of people - remove the people, or remove the bomb.

    The bomb, and possible bomber was removed. When the it was found to not be a bomb, he was released.

    Should his parents have been notified? Yes.

    Were they - I mean after the event, once safety had been assured?

    When a crime was determined not to have been committed (i.e.: he was known to be innocent), did he need an attorney?
    Every moment of a life is a horrible tragedy, a slapstick comedy, dark nihilism, golden illumination, or nothing at all; depending on how we write the story we tell ourselves.

    Comment

      #17
      Re: Ahmed the Clock Maker

      Originally posted by B. de Corbin View Post

      When a crime was determined not to have been committed (i.e.: he was known to be innocent), did he need an attorney?
      Ah, clearly a difference between the UK and the US then. Over here you're supposed to have an attorney present once arrested, or at least be given that choice.
      To only be offered an attorney once one is known to be guilty suggests that the police are taking on the role of judge and jury and personally I would be worried about that.
      Cultural difference I suspect.
      www.thewolfenhowlepress.com


      Phantom Turnips never die.... they just get stewed occasionally....

      Comment

        #18
        Re: Ahmed the Clock Maker

        Originally posted by Tylluan Penry View Post
        Ah, clearly a difference between the UK and the US then. Over here you're supposed to have an attorney present once arrested, or at least be given that choice.
        To only be offered an attorney once one is known to be guilty suggests that the police are taking on the role of judge and jury and personally I would be worried about that.
        Cultural difference I suspect.
        Typically he should've been offered one pretty early but he was also released to his parents inside a matter of hours. There are a number of police practices that I'm not a fan of but unless that department likes pain, he'd likely have gotten an attorney soon after reaching Juvie if he wasn't released soon after instead.
        life itself was a lightsaber in his hands; even in the face of treachery and death and hopes gone cold, he burned like a candle in the darkness. Like a star shining in the black eternity of space.

        Yoda: Dark Rendezvous

        "But those men who know anything at all about the Light also know that there is a fierceness to its power, like the bare sword of the law, or the white burning of the sun." Suddenly his voice sounded to Will very strong, and very Welsh. "At the very heart, that is. Other things, like humanity, and mercy, and charity, that most good men hold more precious than all else, they do not come first for the Light. Oh, sometimes they are there; often, indeed. But in the very long run the concern of you people is with the absolute good, ahead of all else..."

        John Rowlands, The Grey King by Susan Cooper

        "You come from the Lord Adam and the Lady Eve", said Aslan. "And that is both honour enough to erect the head of the poorest beggar, and shame enough to bow the shoulders of the greatest emperor on earth; be content."

        Aslan, Prince Caspian by CS Lewis


        Comment

          #19
          Re: Ahmed the Clock Maker

          A couple of hours? Without a lawyer?
          Nuff said.

          Still, this is fun:

          Ahmed has a clock! | Ahmed has a clock! #IStandWithAhmed | By Peace HouseFacebook
          https://www.facebook.com/PeacehouseUS/videos/459601860888737/
          Ahmed has a clock! #IStandWithAhmed
          www.thewolfenhowlepress.com


          Phantom Turnips never die.... they just get stewed occasionally....

          Comment

            #20
            Re: Ahmed the Clock Maker

            I think part of the issue with the lawyer is he was not charged with anything as it was under investigation. No charges then no legal requirement to have an attorney present. So in that case one could argue he was taken into protective custody while things initially investigated. But then you get into anything you say can be used against you if charges are entered later, especially if Miranda was read to you at any time.
            I'm Only Responsible For What I Say Not For What Or How You Understand!

            Comment

              #21
              Re: Ahmed the Clock Maker

              Originally posted by Tylluan Penry View Post
              Ah, clearly a difference between the UK and the US then. Over here you're supposed to have an attorney present once arrested, or at least be given that choice.
              To only be offered an attorney once one is known to be guilty suggests that the police are taking on the role of judge and jury and personally I would be worried about that.
              Cultural difference I suspect.
              In the US you have a right to an attorney when you ask for one, or when you are charged with a crime, I think...

              Since the investigation revealed that no crime had been committed (not that he was innocent - there had been no crime committed), there was no charge.
              Every moment of a life is a horrible tragedy, a slapstick comedy, dark nihilism, golden illumination, or nothing at all; depending on how we write the story we tell ourselves.

              Comment

                #22
                Re: Ahmed the Clock Maker

                Clearly different over here. You arrest someone, they have the right to a lawyer. Thanks for clearing that up.
                www.thewolfenhowlepress.com


                Phantom Turnips never die.... they just get stewed occasionally....

                Comment

                  #23
                  Re: Ahmed the Clock Maker

                  Originally posted by B. de Corbin View Post
                  In the US you have a right to an attorney when you ask for one, or when you are charged with a crime, I think...

                  Since the investigation revealed that no crime had been committed (not that he was innocent - there had been no crime committed), there was no charge.
                  You also have a right to one with custodial interrogations (this leads to various issues I have with the police but that's a tangent). Either way, he'd have gotten one relatively soon if they weren't already prepping to release him.
                  life itself was a lightsaber in his hands; even in the face of treachery and death and hopes gone cold, he burned like a candle in the darkness. Like a star shining in the black eternity of space.

                  Yoda: Dark Rendezvous

                  "But those men who know anything at all about the Light also know that there is a fierceness to its power, like the bare sword of the law, or the white burning of the sun." Suddenly his voice sounded to Will very strong, and very Welsh. "At the very heart, that is. Other things, like humanity, and mercy, and charity, that most good men hold more precious than all else, they do not come first for the Light. Oh, sometimes they are there; often, indeed. But in the very long run the concern of you people is with the absolute good, ahead of all else..."

                  John Rowlands, The Grey King by Susan Cooper

                  "You come from the Lord Adam and the Lady Eve", said Aslan. "And that is both honour enough to erect the head of the poorest beggar, and shame enough to bow the shoulders of the greatest emperor on earth; be content."

                  Aslan, Prince Caspian by CS Lewis


                  Comment

                    #24
                    Re: Ahmed the Clock Maker

                    It would all be a lot more convincing had it not taken them until Wednesday to decide not to charge him.

                    As for them defending their actions by saying that the clock was suspicious in nature, well so are many other things. School dinners always looked dodgy to me.

                    Obviously, we don't agree on this.
                    But apparently Ahmed has vowed never to taken an invention to school again. And that's the biggest loss of all.
                    www.thewolfenhowlepress.com


                    Phantom Turnips never die.... they just get stewed occasionally....

                    Comment

                      #25
                      Re: Ahmed the Clock Maker

                      Don't eat the mystery meat, or the rainbow beef

                      The clock in question:
                      Last edited by B. de Corbin; 17 Sep 2015, 06:45.
                      Every moment of a life is a horrible tragedy, a slapstick comedy, dark nihilism, golden illumination, or nothing at all; depending on how we write the story we tell ourselves.

                      Comment

                        #26
                        Re: Ahmed the Clock Maker

                        That circuit board sure looks explosive.

                        Comment

                          #27
                          Re: Ahmed the Clock Maker

                          Originally posted by Tylluan Penry View Post
                          Ah, clearly a difference between the UK and the US then. Over here you're supposed to have an attorney present once arrested, or at least be given that choice.
                          To only be offered an attorney once one is known to be guilty suggests that the police are taking on the role of judge and jury and personally I would be worried about that.
                          Cultural difference I suspect.
                          When under 18 they most certainly need an attorney or parent.

                          Comment

                            #28
                            Re: Ahmed the Clock Maker

                            Originally posted by Ula View Post
                            When under 18 they most certainly need an attorney or parent.
                            I was under the impression you couldn't question a minor without a legal guardian or attorney.

                            The fact that instead of evacuating the school, they simply arrested him does not compute with any other "bomb threat" I've heard about, and we recently had several here in TN. This was straight up bigotry. If not for the simple act of thinking it was a bomb, for the fact that the procedures taken were completely different than usual.

                            Disgusting.
                            ~Rudyard Kipling, The Cat Who Walks By Himself

                            Comment

                              #29
                              Re: Ahmed the Clock Maker

                              Originally posted by faye_cat View Post
                              I was under the impression you couldn't question a minor without a legal guardian or attorney.

                              The fact that instead of evacuating the school, they simply arrested him does not compute with any other "bomb threat" I've heard about, and we recently had several here in TN. This was straight up bigotry. If not for the simple act of thinking it was a bomb, for the fact that the procedures taken were completely different than usual.

                              Disgusting.
                              Actually I've seen bomb threats come in that do not result in school's being evacuated. Many times it is based upon how creditable the threat is believed to be versus the chaos and potential harm evacuating the school could cause.

                              To be honest though I'm really tired of all the "It has to be racist" inspired. That's the bs line that runs when people act upon something and nothing happens or fail to act and something does happen. It's also a problem with all the armchair specialist who chime in about how it had to be racist because the person is a person of color. Totally ignoring even if he had been White, Indian or such it wouldn't have made the news because it does not cause sensational coverage any more than any black on white, hispanic on white, etc incident that can't be used to cause more racial presumption of wrong.
                              I'm Only Responsible For What I Say Not For What Or How You Understand!

                              Comment

                                #30
                                Re: Ahmed the Clock Maker

                                Wow I wish we lived in your fantasy world.

                                That's right folks, a white kid name Dan with a homemade clock would have been treated exactly the same in Texas.

                                Comment

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