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Juvenile offenders & life sentances

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    #46
    Re: Juvenile offenders & life sentances

    Well I don't know where the source is exactly but I know it's possible that a child is capable of murder, manslaughter or whatever you called it. As I mention before the kid should do a lot of hard time which I think life sentences is the way to go.

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      #47
      Re: Juvenile offenders & life sentances

      Originally posted by Bartmanhomer View Post
      Well I don't know where the source is exactly but I know it's possible that a child is capable of murder, manslaughter or whatever you called it. As I mention before the kid should do a lot of hard time which I think life sentences is the way to go.
      A child? Yes, a child can still fulfill the requirement of mens rea. Here's the thing, child is not an extraordinarily specific term. Teenagers and three year olds are both children. The former can under certain conditions be compelled to face adult justice. The latter can't be compelled to face any prosecution because the position of the state is that they are incapable of Criminal Intent.
      Life itself was a lightsaber in his hands; even in the face of treachery and death and hopes gone cold, he burned like a candle in the darkness. Like a star shining in the black eternity of space.

      Yoda: Dark Rendezvous

      "But those men who know anything at all about the Light also know that there is a fierceness to its power, like the bare sword of the law, or the white burning of the sun." Suddenly his voice sounded to Will very strong, and very Welsh. "At the very heart, that is. Other things, like humanity, and mercy, and charity, that most good men hold more precious than all else, they do not come first for the Light. Oh, sometimes they are there; often, indeed. But in the very long run the concern of you people is with the absolute good, ahead of all else..."

      John Rowlands, The Grey King by Susan Cooper

      "You come from the Lord Adam and the Lady Eve", said Aslan. "And that is both honour enough to erect the head of the poorest beggar, and shame enough to bow the shoulders of the greatest emperor on earth; be content."

      Aslan, Prince Caspian by CS Lewis


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        #48
        Re: Juvenile offenders & life sentances

        Originally posted by MaskedOne View Post
        A child? Yes, a child can still fulfill the requirement of mens rea. Here's the thing, child is not an extraordinarily specific term. Teenagers and three year olds are both children. The former can under certain conditions be compelled to face adult justice. The latter can't be compelled to face any prosecution because the position of the state is that they are incapable of Criminal Intent.
        Well they should really change that law. I just not convince nor believe that a child should get away for murder scot free.

        Comment

          #49
          Re: Juvenile offenders & life sentances

          Originally posted by Bartmanhomer View Post
          Well they should really change that law. I just not convince nor believe that a child should get away for murder scot free.
          Do you believe that anyone gets away with murder scot free? And a child - and we need a really iron clad definition of this term - who cannot be trusted to drive, drink or have sex below a certain again, is clearly not able to formulate the intent necessary for murder (as opposed to manslaughter.)

          Maybe children need to be looked after better in our society. Educated better. Better fed (with less junk). You already said (on another thread) that you believed what you read in the tabloid papers. Maybe some children believe what they see on TV - that you can kick, stab or shoot someone and they won't die. Who knows?

          But no. Children should not be treated as adults in the criminal justice system.
          www.thewolfenhowlepress.com


          Phantom Turnips never die.... they just get stewed occasionally....

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            #50
            Re: Juvenile offenders & life sentances

            There was a recent case where a couple of 3 year olds put a 2 year old in an oven & turned it on. The younger child died. I don't think anyone believes these kids had a clue - the parents are held liable for leaving them unattended in cases like these. Now if a 14 year old put a 2 year old in the oven, it's a different story.
            sigpic
            Can you hear me, Major Tom? I think I love you.

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              #51
              Re: Juvenile offenders & life sentances

              Originally posted by Tylluan Penry View Post
              Do you believe that anyone gets away with murder scot free? And a child - and we need a really iron clad definition of this term - who cannot be trusted to drive, drink or have sex below a certain again, is clearly not able to formulate the intent necessary for murder (as opposed to manslaughter.)

              Maybe children need to be looked after better in our society. Educated better. Better fed (with less junk). You already said (on another thread) that you believed what you read in the tabloid papers. Maybe some children believe what they see on TV - that you can kick, stab or shoot someone and they won't die. Who knows?

              But no. Children should not be treated as adults in the criminal justice system.
              Well I believe that no one should get away with murder scot free even when that person happen to be a child.

              Comment

                #52
                Re: Juvenile offenders & life sentances

                Originally posted by Bartmanhomer View Post
                Well I believe that no one should get away with murder scot free even when that person happen to be a child.
                So, you think a three year old should be jailed for the rest of their life for picking up the gun that mommy and daddy didn't lock away a gun safe and held it up to the mean kid that took their favorite toy and broke it, just like they saw in the movies and video games that the grown-ups watch...

                There is something wrong with that.
                Wonderful Life: The Burgess Shale and the Nature of HistoryPagan Devotionals, because the wind and the rain is our Bible
                sigpic

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                  #53
                  Re: Juvenile offenders & life sentances

                  Originally posted by thalassa View Post
                  So, you think a three year old should be jailed for the rest of their life for picking up the gun that mommy and daddy didn't lock away a gun safe and held it up to the mean kid that took their favorite toy and broke it, just like they saw in the movies and video games that the grown-ups watch...

                  There is something wrong with that.
                  I'm just expressing my opinion about it and really think that the law should change. It's makes perfect sense to me that the child should learn his/her consequence of his/her unlawful actions.

                  Comment

                    #54
                    Re: Juvenile offenders & life sentances

                    Originally posted by Bartmanhomer View Post
                    I'm just expressing my opinion about it and really think that the law should change. It's makes perfect sense to me that the child should learn his/her consequence of his/her unlawful actions.
                    The only lessons that giving a life sentence to a three year old will teach are

                    a. That society is insane
                    b. Since we already consider them an irredeemable monster, they should grow up to be one
                    Life itself was a lightsaber in his hands; even in the face of treachery and death and hopes gone cold, he burned like a candle in the darkness. Like a star shining in the black eternity of space.

                    Yoda: Dark Rendezvous

                    "But those men who know anything at all about the Light also know that there is a fierceness to its power, like the bare sword of the law, or the white burning of the sun." Suddenly his voice sounded to Will very strong, and very Welsh. "At the very heart, that is. Other things, like humanity, and mercy, and charity, that most good men hold more precious than all else, they do not come first for the Light. Oh, sometimes they are there; often, indeed. But in the very long run the concern of you people is with the absolute good, ahead of all else..."

                    John Rowlands, The Grey King by Susan Cooper

                    "You come from the Lord Adam and the Lady Eve", said Aslan. "And that is both honour enough to erect the head of the poorest beggar, and shame enough to bow the shoulders of the greatest emperor on earth; be content."

                    Aslan, Prince Caspian by CS Lewis


                    Comment

                      #55
                      Re: Juvenile offenders & life sentances

                      Originally posted by MaskedOne View Post
                      The only lessons that giving a life sentence to a three year old will teach are

                      a. That society is insane
                      b. Since we already consider them an irredeemable monster, they should grow up to be one
                      That's exactly my point.

                      Comment

                        #56
                        Re: Juvenile offenders & life sentances

                        I am a bit late on this debate however it seems rather ludicrous to me to punish children as if they are adults. They are not adults. The brains of a child or a teen are not fully developed. Also, statistically, longer sentences do nothing for the crime rate and have just allowed us to be the top prison state on the planet. The justice system as a whole is barbaric. The fact that we have been giving long term prison sentences to children is just a part of the systematic failures of how we deal with crime in this country.

                        Comment

                          #57
                          Re: Juvenile offenders & life sentances

                          Originally posted by Bartmanhomer View Post
                          I'm just expressing my opinion about it and really think that the law should change. It's makes perfect sense to me that the child should learn his/her consequence of his/her unlawful actions.
                          On which planet does this make perfect sense? (Bearing in mind that on another thread you already appear to believe someone had their brains sucked out when being interviewed for a job and all that...)

                          A responsible society tries to educate its citizens to be responsible. A three year old will NOT learn anything at all locked up in prison - except maybe how to be a more accomplished criminal.
                          www.thewolfenhowlepress.com


                          Phantom Turnips never die.... they just get stewed occasionally....

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                            #58
                            Re: Juvenile offenders & life sentances

                            Originally posted by Tylluan Penry View Post
                            On which planet does this make perfect sense? (Bearing in mind that on another thread you already appear to believe someone had their brains sucked out when being interviewed for a job and all that...)

                            A responsible society tries to educate its citizens to be responsible. A three year old will NOT learn anything at all locked up in prison - except maybe how to be a more accomplished criminal.
                            Then the child should never thought of killing another person in the first place.

                            Comment

                              #59
                              Re: Juvenile offenders & life sentances

                              As someone who was a juvenile probation officer and still work in the system I can say it depends on each case. We look at history in the system, intent, parental involvement. Most kids still would not just be jailed and forgotten. They would still be in a juvenile facility where they would get treatment, then a youthful offender facility with treatment. But honestly 16 or older and I personally feel you know enough about right and wrong to be transferred to adult court. I only had two in the seven years I worked. There are very few like that around here. A bigger area may have more.

                              Comment

                                #60
                                Re: Juvenile offenders & life sentances

                                "Knowing between right and wrong" is nothing but a cheap phrase that does not even begin to address the actual. You are still saying we should charge people as adults who's brains aren't even developed fully. Their are bodies of scientific evidence that link the underdeveloped brain of a teenager to crime, impulse, control, poor judgment, and peer pressure. They should be treated like an adult? Really?

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