Class Size and Teacher Pay in the US

[Ula]

Re: Class Size and Teacher Pay in the US

Ohio allows vouchers. I wish all states did. I have my son in an autism school that is Lovaas certified. He started at 3 and will soon be 7. Their program ends at 8. We are moving from one county to another for a better school system but honestly I would love to go private. The Catholic schools are more willing to work with behaviors and outburst but have no extra services like speech and OT. But we pay for those extra now too.

[Ophidia]

Re: Class Size and Teacher Pay in the US

Internships can be set up in different ways, of course, and when they work they are great.

At this school, we have a school store, run by students.

We have a class where students build an entire house every year - including the wiring and plumbing and heating system, which is then sold cheaply to a needy family.

We have a school newspaper, run by students (I am adviser).

We have an auto shop, run by students.

The agriculture classes do actual farming, repair machinery, raise meat birds, cut trees, etc.

^^^ See, that's what I'm talking about. The kids in those classes/programs will have mad skillz when they graduate!

I rankle a bit over school property tax increases as well. On the first day of my Sophomore year, there was a gang shoot-out in the high school parking lot. I got sent home that day because my shorts were a quarter-inch higher than my fingertips. I was not the only dress-code violator sitting in the office at that point. Gunfighting in the freaking parking lot, and you're stressing me because I'm too broke to even go to a thrift store to pick up dress-code compliant shorts? Priorities, people! When I dropped out, they made no effort whatsoever to convince me to come back to school. I imagine they felt they were better off seeing my back.

(Of course, that same school is now a 'magnet school' with notable aerospace and biomedical programs).

[DanieMarie]

Re: Class Size and Teacher Pay in the US

Sorry guys, but if you're in the US, you don't have high taxes....just sayin'

I have a really low income and I don't pay income tax, but I do pay property tax and really high VAT (19%!) on everything I buy excluding food and books (the rate for those is 7%). Moreover, the land transfer tax when I got this place was 4.5%. Do I mind? Nope. I think a lot of things need to be reorganized and I think that Germany's school system has a LOT of problems, but I don't mind that I pay a lot of tax dollars and that a lot of those tax dollars go towards education (also post-secondary, since this is mostly subsidized here, even at a post-grad level).

- - - Updated - - -

I would like to add, though, that I'm not trying to be insensitive. I believe in progressive taxes, and don't feel that high property taxes are fair. Consumption taxes and progressive income taxes are a better way to go. Also, if they US wants more money, they need to start making sure that there are fewer loopholes, so that their corporations actually pay the taxes they should.

[Ophidia]

Re: Class Size and Teacher Pay in the US

Sorry guys, but if you're in the US, you don't have high taxes....just sayin'

I have a really low income and I don't pay income tax, but I do pay property tax and really high VAT (19%!) on everything I buy excluding food and books (the rate for those is 7%). Moreover, the land transfer tax when I got this place was 4.5%. Do I mind? Nope. I think a lot of things need to be reorganized and I think that Germany's school system has a LOT of problems, but I don't mind that I pay a lot of tax dollars and that a lot of those tax dollars go towards education (also post-secondary, since this is mostly subsidized here, even at a post-grad level).

- - - Updated - - -

Say what you will - I hand over approx. 16% of my paycheck every two weeks. Granted, it's 6% Social Security and Welfare/Medicaid deductions, but 10% of that is all Federal Income Tax. I'm relieved to live in a state with no State income tax, because then it'd be closer to 20% of my paychecks. We have an 8% sales tax (grocery foods are exempt). If we owned our home, that'd be another 3% of our home's value every year. We lived in Oregon for awhile - their property tax is closer to 10% (at least in the area we lived in, which was the state capitol). In general, the US has lower taxes than the rest of the First World, but it still hurts when you live paycheck to paycheck.

Once all's said and done, though, I don't mind paying taxes for necessary services. I do get annoyed with sales tax - first your going to tax me on the money I take home, and tax me again when I spend it, and then tax the person who sold me the stuff in the first place. That system makes no sense (except to the IRS).

[westwoden]

Re: Class Size and Teacher Pay in the US

WTF guys!

I started a thread on this because I didn't want to hijack the history thread again. But seriously...30+ kids in a class? And the wages seem insane! It's not exactly like it's a low-skilled job, and it's an important job in that the future of a lot of people depends on the quality of teachers. You'd think that would be worth paying for...

Teachers get low pay because many consider it to be a job that anyone could do.

Those with the money go to private school - it is a way of segregating the masses from the elite - the joy of liberal democracy (not)!

[DanieMarie]

Re: Class Size and Teacher Pay in the US

Say what you will - I hand over approx. 16% of my paycheck every two weeks. Granted, it's 6% Social Security and Welfare/Medicaid deductions, but 10% of that is all Federal Income Tax. I'm relieved to live in a state with no State income tax, because then it'd be closer to 20% of my paychecks. We have an 8% sales tax (grocery foods are exempt). If we owned our home, that'd be another 3% of our home's value every year. We lived in Oregon for awhile - their property tax is closer to 10% (at least in the area we lived in, which was the state capitol). In general, the US has lower taxes than the rest of the First World, but it still hurts when you live paycheck to paycheck.

Once all's said and done, though, I don't mind paying taxes for necessary services. I do get annoyed with sales tax - first your going to tax me on the money I take home, and tax me again when I spend it, and then tax the person who sold me the stuff in the first place. That system makes no sense (except to the IRS).

I'm sorry, but that's incredibly low tax, and it's not enough to keep a country going with strong public services. In Canada I paid about 30% of my income in tax (which is about average)...I got most of it back, because I was a student and you can write off tuition, and also I didn't earn enough yearly because I only worked part time and in the summer, but still, I saw it come off my paycheck. Here, it's about the same, though social security is higher and you have to pay more for health care, and the top tax rate is higher and you have to earn less to have to pay that rate (46.5% if you earn more than 60,000 Euros annually as opposed to about 42% on over $100,000 annually...not sure on the exact top limit in BC). Sales tax in BC is 12.5%...here in Germany it's 19%.

Taxes SHOULD be progressive, meaning that if you're low income, you pay a lower percentage of tax, and I think property tax should be lower than the rates you've quoted....but overall, you should probably put things into perspective....

- - - Updated - - -

Teachers get low pay because many consider it to be a job that anyone could do.

Well, that's just hilarious.

[Ophidia]

Re: Class Size and Teacher Pay in the US

... and I think property tax should be lower than the rates you've quoted....

Oregon is considered insane by most other states in the US, lol - and it's not even in the top 10 states for high property taxes. Most of those are on the East Coast. Nevada's in the low end. If anything, they should raise the property taxes here. We don't have a high state population, but every increase puts a greater burden on state and county services, and our population is still growing. Most of our county governmental agencies were engineered to be smaller & more centralized, so every time an agency has to expand to cover more residents, it causes stress fractures all the way up the pipeline.

...but overall, you should probably put things into perspective.

I do - the gov'ment be taking my moneys, and giving me very little back in return (about 3%). :P And your sales tax is ridiculous! Seriously! If it was always that high, I understand why my father was able to 'bootleg' cigarettes in Canada back in the 80's.

[DanieMarie]

Re: Class Size and Teacher Pay in the US

Oregon is considered insane by most other states in the US, lol - and it's not even in the top 10 states for high property taxes. Most of those are on the East Coast. Nevada's in the low end. If anything, they should raise the property taxes here. We don't have a high state population, but every increase puts a greater burden on state and county services, and our population is still growing. Most of our county governmental agencies were engineered to be smaller & more centralized, so every time an agency has to expand to cover more residents, it causes stress fractures all the way up the pipeline.

I do - the gov'ment be taking my moneys, and giving me very little back in return (about 3%). :P And your sales tax is ridiculous! Seriously! If it was always that high, I understand why my father was able to 'bootleg' cigarettes in Canada back in the 80's.

That, and also things like cigarettes and alcohol also have taxes attached to them (which I think are worked into the price). Cigarettes are very expensive in Canada, and a lot of that is tax. I'm not really opposed to that, because it's a public health care system funded by taxes, and everything should be done to get people to quit. I'm not really opposed to the sales tax levels either...over there people who are low-income get a GST (federal sales tax) credit- about $50 every quarter, but I think it could be more depending on income and family size and stuff like that. I'm not really opposed to our sales tax here either...they do other things to keep prices lower (some of which I don't agree with, but that's a different topic). Taxes are also lower on necessities. I'm not really opposed to sales taxes and other consumption taxes, because if you don't consume, you don't have to pay them (excluding necessities, of course).

I totally think high property taxes are a terrible idea, because they're not progressive. If you earn a lower income, you pay the same amount of taxes as a person with a higher income. I think property taxes are necessary, but should be low. Income tax, on the other hand, can be higher, but progressive (so that no one has to pay income taxes they can't afford). I honestly don't know how it's so difficult...they kind of struggle with taxes here as well, but on the other end (taxes are really high, and due to loopholes the middle class pays the lions share).

I know what you mean though about the government taking money and giving back little in return. I'd probably feel the same way if I lived in the US. I didn't mind taxes at all in Canada, because the education system is very good, the public health care system has its flaws but I always got the care I needed in enough time, the roads were great, etc. Here I do still mostly see my tax dollars, but I'm bitter about the lack of a single-payer public health insurance provider, as well as how the city (not so much the country) pretty much burns money (see the Berlin airport issue, for example).

[AzazelEblis]

Re: Class Size and Teacher Pay in the US

Teachers get low pay because many consider it to be a job that anyone could do.

Those with the money go to private school - it is a way of segregating the masses from the elite - the joy of liberal democracy (not)!

Uhm... I'm used to teachers at private schools getting paid much worse than even public school teachers. In my area, they're often the ones that didn't make "the cut" over certification or some other issue.

[B. de Corbin]

Re: Class Size and Teacher Pay in the US

Uhm... I'm used to teachers at private schools getting paid much worse than even public school teachers. In my area, they're often the ones that didn't make "the cut" over certification or some other issue.

Yes - they tend to make something close to minimum wage. Clearly they wouldn't be there if they could get a better paying job somewhere else...

...unless they are "hobby teachers" - people who don't need the income, but want to work. You know - ladies with rich husbands & such like.

In Michigan, private schools don't have to meet the same criteria for success as public schools do, nor do they have to submit to the standardized tests that public schools do. In short - you don't know what you're going to get from one.

[westwoden]

Re: Class Size and Teacher Pay in the US

When I used the word 'private schools' I am talking about Ivy League type places or high end schools for the rich.

Teachers at those places get higher pay than the local govt. school for sure.

but, it's all supply and demand, many teachers are available as it's not a specialised skill except in the minds of the teachers themselves, lol

[AzazelEblis]

Re: Class Size and Teacher Pay in the US

When I used the word 'private schools' I am talking about Ivy League type places or high end schools for the rich.

Teachers at those places get higher pay than the local govt. school for sure.

but, it's all supply and demand, many teachers are available as it's not a specialised skill except in the minds of the teachers themselves, lol

Here's the thing - supply and demand has no respect for human dignity, or for allowing people the means to actually survive.

[westwoden]

Re: Class Size and Teacher Pay in the US

that's true I agree, but most people are self-centered.

Hence slavery, feudalism, bigotry and the rest.

[B. de Corbin]

Re: Class Size and Teacher Pay in the US

that's true I agree, but most people are self-centered.

Hence slavery, feudalism, bigotry and the rest.

This is why you need to have unions. That's also why there is a big push from one side destroy unions. And not a whole shitload of support from the other side.

That's why Walmart makes it a firing offence to even mention "union."

[westwoden]

Re: Class Size and Teacher Pay in the US

surely that is illegal?

or do Wallmart have some kind of special clause that allows them to prevent unions forming amongst their staff?

There are teachers' unions though AFAIK so just think how bad the pay would be otherwise!