Utopia

[Kahlenda]

Re: Utopia

even a labour based society would have to be based on that, to begin with

you work or you dont get anything, even making everything free, and removing money you still need t have an incentive or people will be lazy at first anyway

[Archimedes]

Re: Utopia

I'm gonna argue that. True leadership is when you can get people to do what you want by whatever means work.

Whatever means, huh?

Kahlenda: even a labour based society would have to be based on that, to begin with

you work or you dont get anything, even making everything free, and removing money you still need t have an incentive or people will be lazy at first anyway

Sure, you can't get something for nothing. There has to be some sort of collective contribution.

Still I imagine a society where all goods and services are "free" so long as everybody from all walks of life are contributing something.

Diogenes: I am talking about a bled of individualism and collective action. What I am saying which you seem to be missing is that since agents are similar in key ways when they act freely they will be advantaged by cooperating when they can. Why would I do everything myself when I could share the work with a few others and get better results to boot. But to prevent cooperation from becoming collective groupthink, people need to be individuals first.

Alright.

[Luce]

Re: Utopia

Whatever means, huh?

I'm not saying it's a good thing. It's just the way the world works.

[Medusa]

Re: Utopia

No we will never have Utopia. Why? Because we can't even get it right when we are given free reign of our imagination to just write about it. We are inherently distrustful of nice and good things. Plus we have cats. That chaos in the world cannot be copacetic with utopia.

[Kahlenda]

Re: Utopia

even the utopian star trek federation, was driven by incentives. jut different ones to wat we have today

[Luce]

Re: Utopia

No we will never have Utopia. Why? Because we can't even get it right when we are given free reign of our imagination to just write about it. We are inherently distrustful of nice and good things. Plus we have cats. That chaos in the world cannot be copacetic with utopia.

Also, one person's utopia is another person's hell on Earth.

[Archimedes]

Re: Utopia

I'm not saying it's a good thing. It's just the way the world works.

That is how the world is majorly failing as we speak right now.

Medusa: No we will never have Utopia. Why? Because we can't even get it right when we are given free reign of our imagination to just write about it. We are inherently distrustful of nice and good things. Plus we have cats. That chaos in the world cannot be copacetic with utopia.

Distrust can be overcomed and transcended. There is always compromise.

Kahlenda: even the utopian star trek federation, was driven by incentives. jut different ones to wat we have today

We need to transform a century of self to one of collective values where besides working for ourselves we work for the improvement of everybody.

Luce: Also, one person's utopia is another person's hell on Earth.

Which is why everybody ought to have a choice to live in such a experimental society or not to.

It should never be mandatory.

[Luce]

Re: Utopia

That is how the world is majorly failing as we speak right now.

World's ALWAYS been going to hell in a space shuttle. Still haven't gotten there, though.

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See, here's my problem. Say you set up a utopia, and I don't like it. What are my choices?

[Archimedes]

Re: Utopia

World's ALWAYS been going to hell in a space shuttle. Still haven't gotten there, though.

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See, here's my problem. Say you set up a utopia, and I don't like it. What are my choices?

This is why I want to create open private utopian communities. You can choose to join one or not to.

It's not mandatory. It's purely expirimental for the improvement of everybody.

[Luce]

Re: Utopia

This is why I want to create open private utopian communities. You can choose to join one or not to.

It's not mandatory. It's purely expirimental for the improvement of everybody.

You can do that right now. There's absolutely nothing stopping you.

[Medusa]

Re: Utopia

This is why I want to create open private utopian communities. You can choose to join one or not to.

It's not mandatory. It's purely expirimental for the improvement of everybody.

Didn't we have hippy communes? What ever happened to those? People live in their so-called Utopian world now. They grow into 'sects' into 'Jim Jones' worlds. I don't want kool-aid. I'll pass.

[Luce]

Re: Utopia

Didn't we have hippy communes? What ever happened to those? People live in their so-called Utopian world now. They grow into 'sects' into 'Jim Jones' worlds. I don't want kool-aid. I'll pass.

Also, there have been some hilarious failures of well-funded libertarian utopias, that didn't even survive the planning stage, because they couldn't even get along that long.

[Archimedes]

Re: Utopia

You can do that right now. There's absolutely nothing stopping you.

I'm actually working on a community project called,"New Athens", as we speak. The problem of course since it is a new idea is finding enough people to start one and getting the proper financing. I want to actually create a purely a Hellenic pagan community somewhere although I'll settle for having a community of many different diverse pagans living in this community. Not only would it be a pagan community retreat but it would also be a place where some theoretical or experimental utopian social economic values can be tried out. I am very much influenced by Thoreau and B.F. Skinner if you have ever read either.

[Luce]

Re: Utopia

I'm actually working on a project called,"New Athens", as we speak. The problem of course since it is new is finding enough people to start one and getting the proper financing. I want to actually create a purely a Hellenic pagan community somewhere although I'll settle for having a community of many different diverse pagans living in this community. Not only would it be a pagan community retreat but it would also be a place where some theoretical or experimental utopian values can be tried out. I am very much influenced by Thoreau and B.F. Skinner if you have ever read either.

Well, yes, that is the problem with private ventures such as this.

And Thoreau had one HUGE flaw in his thinking.

[Archimedes]

Re: Utopia

Well, yes, that is the problem with private ventures such as this.

And Thoreau had one HUGE flaw in his thinking.

The natural goal of course would be to avoid past failures which can be difficult.

Medusa: Didn't we have hippy communes? What ever happened to those? People live in their so-called Utopian world now. They grow into 'sects' into 'Jim Jones' worlds. I don't want kool-aid. I'll pass.

Typical negative stereotypes. I suppose next you will be mentioning Helter Skelter.

There is plenty of kool- aid in this world of corrupt centralized government controlled societies that come in the guise of oxygen masks breathing in the air of 24/7 ongoing televised propaganda.

Do you think that is any better? It is better to strive for the better I think than to be content with what is otherwise a destructive world. Nothing is of course is perfect, but I rather choose that than to be miserably content or numb with the present world.