Utopia

[Medusa]

Re: Utopia

I'm actually working on a community project called,"New Athens", as we speak. The problem of course since it is a new idea is finding enough people to start one and getting the proper financing. I want to actually create a purely a Hellenic pagan community somewhere although I'll settle for having a community of many different diverse pagans living in this community. Not only would it be a pagan community retreat but it would also be a place where some theoretical or experimental utopian social economic values can be tried out. I am very much influenced by Thoreau and B.F. Skinner if you have ever read either.

So in your Utopian world, what do you do with the Muslims and atheists? The Jews and Christians? Or is this Utopia only for certain types of people? Hence destroying the very idea of what Utopia is meant for and coming too close to being Jim Jones etc? Even in your purely good hearted intentions you are already on a dark path without being aware of it.

[Luce]

Re: Utopia

The natural goal of course would be to avoid past failures which can be difficult.

I remember reading Thoreau as a teenager, back in the year dot. He was discussing self-sufficiency, and how he had demonstrated it by building this cabin.

Thing is, he was using Ralph Waldo Emerson's land, and he was using nails scavenged from a previous structure. At some point, someone needs to make the nails.

[Agel]

Re: Utopia

No we will never have Utopia. Why? Because we can't even get it right when we are given free reign of our imagination to just write about it. We are inherently distrustful of nice and good things. Plus we have cats. That chaos in the world cannot be copacetic with utopia.

That reminds me of that part in The Matrix where Smith is telling Morpheus that the machines tried to give us humans a paradise but we rejected it. So we got 1999.

even the utopian star trek federation, was driven by incentives. jut different ones to wat we have today

The Federation was never meant to be a utopia. It's just a group of aliens that decided to join up together. There are still many problems they got to deal with.

[Corvus]

Re: Utopia

Those who walk away from Omelas was a story we read in school, it's pretty short and describes utopia. You should read it.
Really it's impossible. Socially people cannot get along well enough without someone making them and being that authoritarian makes people live in fear. Utopia is no place and no place it will remain.

[PsykhikosAnarchosNautikos]

Re: Utopia

Sounds like Zeitgeist, which is just a rehash of Peter Kropotkins 'Communist-Anarchism' (communist as in community, not as in China's Communism).

These 'Utopias' have been around for a while- religions and subcultures are their own utopias. What do the Church of Satan, Church of Scientology and your local Anarchist and Hippie book and incense shops have in common? 501 3C- or non-profit organization. They are legal under US Federal Law (at least State law) to do just about whatever they want and their money is basically transparent. It's supposed to all go back into the church or business but i have heard of people with great (monetary) lives because of it.

Basically, get a lawyer, find the loop holes, jump through hoops, etc, and you will have yourself a private run community that others can join for free. All that costs money is getting the initial 501 3C legalized and any money that comes to your organization- you and your group pay no taxes (the last time I checked, but this was about 5 years or so ago, so the law might have changed). If all you're looking for is a community base for like minds, this is the best bet, or you could be seen as terrorists- literally.

[Luce]

Re: Utopia

Those who walk away from Omelas was a story we read in school, it's pretty short and describes utopia.

If it's the story I remember, it's a friggin' nightmare.