Controversy Over Blood Sacrifice

[Medusa]

Re: Controversy Over Blood Sacrifice

I have to bring up a point from the non theist way of thinking. If a deity is a DEITY, why does it need your sacrifice? The idea when I look way into it, seems narcissistic in nature. Your gods don't need you. If they did, they are pretty much not really gods. You do rituals to give you a sense of being closer to gods. But let's be real. I doubt an omnipotent's day is hinging on your proper animal/color/food ritual. So much reverence is given to this act that is only for the benefit of the person doing the act. But if it makes you feel good, then hey, no harm no foul. But don't bring another creature who is not of your faith and spill their blood. You want to sacrifice, then sacrifice yourself.

[Rae'ya]

Re: Controversy Over Blood Sacrifice

I have to bring up a point from the non theist way of thinking. If a deity is a DEITY, why does it need your sacrifice? The idea when I look way into it, seems narcissistic in nature. Your gods don't need you. If they did, they are pretty much not really gods. You do rituals to give you a sense of being closer to gods. But let's be real. I doubt an omnipotent's day is hinging on your proper animal/color/food ritual. So much reverence is given to this act that is only for the benefit of the person doing the act. But if it makes you feel good, then hey, no harm no foul. But don't bring another creature who is not of your faith and spill their blood. You want to sacrifice, then sacrifice yourself.

This is why my blood offerings are my own blood.

But as to the question of why they need sacrifices... personally, I don't believe that deities are omnipotent entities that rule over this world. I believe that they are entities that exist in another plane of existence and that their power in THIS world is given to them by us, via things like worship and offerings and ritual and whatnot. So if no one believed in or worshiped say... Zeus... he couldn't do jack shit here. He could do whatever he likes in HIS world, but his power in THIS world is limited by us.

Plus we could all do with some extra energy once in a while. That's why they invented energy drinks. Just think of us as a can of Red Bull.

[Medusa]

Re: Controversy Over Blood Sacrifice

This is why my blood offerings are my own blood.

But as to the question of why they need sacrifices... personally, I don't believe that deities are omnipotent entities that rule over this world. I believe that they are entities that exist in another plane of existence and that their power in THIS world is given to them by us, via things like worship and offerings and ritual and whatnot. So if no one believed in or worshiped say... Zeus... he couldn't do jack shit here. He could do whatever he likes in HIS world, but his power in THIS world is limited by us.

Plus we could all do with some extra energy once in a while. That's why they invented energy drinks. Just think of us as a can of Red Bull.

Lol. That's a way of looking at it. Were you perchance a Superman fan? Because this sounds an awful lot how Superman operates. He's not powerful on his world. He's just a dude. But here he has super powers!

[anunitu]

Re: Controversy Over Blood Sacrifice

Reminds self that Duce is on a fast,so tip toeing so as not to become her red bull...:devil:

[Medusa]

Re: Controversy Over Blood Sacrifice

Reminds self that Duce is on a fast,so tip toeing so as not to become her red bull...:devil:

Lol. Counting down the hours till I can give up the blood! I'm always the happiest as the blood lab.

[Rae'ya]

Re: Controversy Over Blood Sacrifice

Lol. That's a way of looking at it. Were you perchance a Superman fan? Because this sounds an awful lot how Superman operates. He's not powerful on his world. He's just a dude. But here he has super powers!

Never was a Superman fan. X-Men, yes. Superman, eh.

But yes, I guess it's a bit like that, only the other way around? I think that deities are powerful in their worlds... that's why they are deities and not just spirits or entities. But their power here is what we give them.

But I do agree that for a lot of people, the ritual and pomp is really just that. Psychodrama.

And bringing it back to blood sacrifice... a lot of modern day blood sacrificial practices are not as wasteful as they once were. Sacrificed animals are cooked and eaten... and in the process are given a much more humane, sacred and respectful death than the beef that you buy at the supermarket. We don't even do human sacrifice anymore. And ritual slaughter is often for the purpose of providing a 'clean' meat that will not taint a person spiritually. It's when we sacrifice non-living things that we get wasteful. Offer Odhinn up a bottle of mead... and pour it out onto the ground. Bake some little libation cakes that will look pretty on the alter, then have a moral dilemma about whether you should throw them in the bin or put them out for the wildlife. In a lot of ways I have a larger ethical problem with putting bread on my doorstep for some neo-Wiccan libation than I do sacrificing a chicken and making it into stew. Personally I feel that if you are not respecting the life of the creature and putting it's remains to use, then you can not respect it's death appropriately. And if you haven't respected the death then you haven't sacrificed anything at all, but murdered a creature for no reason and let it's remains go to waste. And that there is the epitome if a shameful, unethical 'sacrifice', in my opinion.

[Medusa]

Re: Controversy Over Blood Sacrifice

Yes. I agree with you. If you are using it for a purpose (other then your own ego etc) then I see nothing wrong with it.

[Louisvillian]

Re: Controversy Over Blood Sacrifice

I have to bring up a point from the non theist way of thinking. If a deity is a DEITY, why does it need your sacrifice?

The idea in ancient religious practice wasn't that the gods "need" sacrifice. It's that humans give sacrifice as a kinda bartering tool. They don't need it, but they delight in it. So they become more tractable, more willing to grant favour.

[Ektor]

Re: Controversy Over Blood Sacrifice

I'm completely against sacrifice of innocents, though, be they humans or animals. Offerings of plants or non living things could do it, and I think some sort of performance ritual could replace actual sacrifice, like some sort of folk dance where you represent sacrifice but don't actually kill anyone.
But let's say you're literally a person defending you home from people invading your land, kill or be killed, I don't think that's a bad thing, it's just something that really shouldn't be done, but when I read about Celts sacrificing Romans to the War Goddess, I can only feel an immense sense of justice out of it.

The idea in ancient religious practice wasn't that the gods "need" sacrifice. It's that humans give sacrifice as a kinda bartering tool. They don't need it, but they delight in it. So they become more tractable, more willing to grant favour.

Actually, Mesoamerican Amerindian religions sacrificed because they believed the world depended on blood sacrifices. The Sun would stop if they didn't bleed out their war captives and slaves. I obviously didn't stop, though. The main problem with this is that it required Aztecs, for example, to constantly enslave people, Mayans sacrificed to Kukulkan, but it was smallscale, some tens of slaves, Aztecs had hundreds of sacrifices in a single ceremony.
Invading a land to capture its people and sacrifice them to your Deity (whic Aztecs did a lot, and really well) is just... Evil. I honestly think all violence not in self defense is immoral.

[Louisvillian]

Re: Controversy Over Blood Sacrifice

Actually

I should have specified: the general intent behind animal sacrifice in Hellenic, Hellenistic, and Roman religion was a system of do ut des, literally "I give that you might give."

Invading a land to capture its people and sacrifice them to your Deity (whic Aztecs did a lot, and really well) is just... Evil.

I'm not willing to judge another culture like that.

[monsno_leedra]

Re: Controversy Over Blood Sacrifice

I should have specified: the general intent behind animal sacrifice in Hellenic, Hellenistic, and Roman religion was a system of do ut des, literally "I give that you might give."

I'm not willing to judge another culture like that.

Bolded mine. I fully agree, especially in the context of using modern morality and cultural norms to judge the past while ignoring all of their own morals and cultural norms for the period being discussed / observed.

[Ektor]

Re: Controversy Over Blood Sacrifice

I'm not ignoring their cultural values, I really love to read about Mesoamerica. But I do judge cultures, systematically killing people is not something good for anyone.

[WinterTraditions]

Re: Controversy Over Blood Sacrifice

Sacrifice has to do with giving up something important. (Sacrificing your life to save anothers. See? Giving up something important for the good of someone else)

If you just go out and kill any old rat or what have you, that is not a sacrifice because that rat's life was not important to you. Something important would be cutting off the hair you adore, throwing a necklace you love into the river... If safety is important to you, cutting to give blood can be a sacrifice. You are sacrificing your comfort for your deity.

Blood sacrifice is totally fine with me as long as the person knows how to do it safely. You don't need a whole lot, and you need to use a sterile tool.

Animal sacrifice... Well I wouldn't use the term sacrifice. Offering is a better word. If you're going to offer an animal's essence, don't waste the actual physical body. Go hunting, and offer the energy of the animal to the deity and take the body home to be eaten. Obviously, don't go shooting a deer every time you do ritual. Hunting would be sacred in this aspect.

[Medusa]

Re: Controversy Over Blood Sacrifice

Oh if someone was sacrificing me to their god that I don't believe in? Oh yeah.
I'm judging you.

[B. de Corbin]

Re: Controversy Over Blood Sacrifice

I am a modern human, living in the 21st century.

I can, and will, judge cultures of the past by my standards, or any other standards I choose.

I realize that this makes me a bad person. Live with it.

There is much in the past that was wrong, just as there is plenty in the present that is wrong (IMHO).

Declaring that the past is off-limits for judgement by those in the present is just silly, and non-binding in my case (actually, in ALL cases). I suggest that all other rational creatures cast off the prohibitions against free thought as well.