Controversy Over Blood Sacrifice

[monsno_leedra]

Re: Controversy Over Blood Sacrifice

..I don't think I agree with this, because I think that doing something once is not automatically chance. I think that for some people, all of that reflection, self analysis and moral consideration can be just as intense the first time as it is the second or third or tenth times. And when it comes to something like donating blood, I think the first time is probably going to be the hardest and most intense choice for most people. I agree that at the second and subsequent times one has a greater awareness of what is actually involved, and therefore can account for things that may not have been considered in the initial choice. But lets also consider that the first time for anything often carries with it a sense of apprehension and the unknown, which is then lost upon subsequent repetitions.

Some things I'd agree with what you said. Yet when it comes to giving blood it's been my experience that the majority of people are strictly chance in that they are at a place such as school, college, work and they enter into donating via a group mind. Someone walks in says they have a need for blood donations and frequently the organization then offers some sort of reward for participating in the blood drive. I've seen reward be a monetary one, a reward via recognition such as patches, etc or public display of thanks, all of which also tend to prey upon the group mind to induce participation through guilt on those who don't. As such I find there is actually little for though or consideration about it.

Seldom is the first blood donation due to someone going to a hospital / donation site and offering their blood. Even less likely that they would actually just happen to be walking by such a place and say "Hey I think i'll give blood today!". Most likely scenario for that is someone in the medical field where the notion is part of the larger mindset.

[Rae'ya]

Re: Controversy Over Blood Sacrifice

Some things I'd agree with what you said. Yet when it comes to giving blood it's been my experience that the majority of people are strictly chance in that they are at a place such as school, college, work and they enter into donating via a group mind. Someone walks in says they have a need for blood donations and frequently the organization then offers some sort of reward for participating in the blood drive. I've seen reward be a monetary one, a reward via recognition such as patches, etc or public display of thanks, all of which also tend to prey upon the group mind to induce participation through guilt on those who don't. As such I find there is actually little for though or consideration about it.

Seldom is the first blood donation due to someone going to a hospital / donation site and offering their blood. Even less likely that they would actually just happen to be walking by such a place and say "Hey I think i'll give blood today!". Most likely scenario for that is someone in the medical field where the notion is part of the larger mindset.

That's not really the way that it works in Australia, so I guess that accounts for a difference of opinion lol.

We do have some targeted marketing and promotional days where there is active recruitment and group mind happening, but for the most part it's a calculated decision to drive down to a collection centre and volunteer the donation. There's no reward aside from the knowledge that you've possibly saved a person's life. So perhaps there's simply an inherent attitudinal difference encouraged between the two systems.

[Kahlenda]

Re: Controversy Over Blood Sacrifice

From my perspective to do something once is simply chance and really requires no self reflection, self analysis, or ethical / moral consideration to do it twice or more is to be aware of the pain, potential and personal commitment to it. Self reflection allows for consideration of ones weaknesses, fears, local physical & mental pain and discomfort and the time required and the commitment to make it to the place. It also suggests, IMHO, a deeper consideration of why one is doing a thing.

Im sorry i need to disagree here, i dont think you have to do something more than once for it to truly be a sacrifice. im going to be a bit extream here but what about a parent pushing a child out the way of a car, or even just another adult out of the way. personally thats a sacrifice and one that i now many people would not hope to do a second time.

[monsno_leedra]

Re: Controversy Over Blood Sacrifice

Im sorry i need to disagree here, i dont think you have to do something more than once for it to truly be a sacrifice. im going to be a bit extream here but what about a parent pushing a child out the way of a car, or even just another adult out of the way. personally thats a sacrifice and one that i now many people would not hope to do a second time.

But the topic was blood sacrifice not heroic actions or such. Yet to use your examples i'd think that a person would be willing to do such would be willing to do such again if the situation presented itself. I've gone into burning buildings before and would do so again though its not something i'd long to have happen again. Yet even your heroic actions are but chance and perhaps fate working together to cause something to occur.

I agree it's a potential to sacrifice the self in service to another but I don't think it makes the same usage of the word as what is conveyed via blood sacrifice. Though heroic sacrifice is far more likely to be a chance situation and response without benefit of time for consideration of potential repercussions of ones action or lack there of. In many ways not actually a sacrifice but a conditioned response to a given stimuli or scenario. Even then probably more due to a certain aptitude towards something than just responding whether they be a parent or public servant. Yes I have seen parents frozen with fear and unable to do anything while another has no connection at all but leaps into the fire because it is their personality to do so. But they wouldn't consider it a sacrifice any more than most of them would consider themselves to be heroic for doing so.

[MaskedOne]

Re: Controversy Over Blood Sacrifice

I don't think a sacrifice has to be offered more than once but I do agree with an underlying point that the mindset going into the sacrifice matters. To use a different format because I don't do bloodwork normally, there's a scene in a Star Wars novel where a character arranges for her ship to crash into a landing bay of a tower. The act served as both a strategic necessity (delayed people from doing something stupid) and a sacrifice linking her to the Jedi (don't ask for the full background, it's not really relevant). The character knew exactly what she was giving up* at the time and ended up waiting a couple hours to watch the ship come in on remote and crash. I don't expect her to go fetch a second ship to kill off before I consider it a sacrifice. The first was quite enough. On the reverse end, I'm not inclined to consider an act of whimsy where the consequences aren't really considered a sacrifice. My criteria for sacrifice is normally that it must be a considered** and willingly chosen act.

* The ship was both a private possession and a symbol of freedom for her.

** It doesn't have to be considered long but there has to be a recognition of what you're about to give up.

[Erika]

Re: Controversy Over Blood Sacrifice

From my perspective to do something once is simply chance and really requires no self reflection, self analysis, or ethical / moral consideration to do it twice or more is to be aware of the pain, potential and personal commitment to it. Self reflection allows for consideration of ones weaknesses, fears, local physical & mental pain and discomfort and the time required and the commitment to make it to the place. It also suggests, IMHO, a deeper consideration of why one is doing a thing.

While I see your point, I think that the same consideration can go into an action you do once as one you do multiple times. Certainly doing it often provides more chances for that reflection, which could cause it to mean more, but I don't think that discounts a single-instance donation from being a sacrifice. In both scenarios, you are giving up your blood, and if you do so with the intent that it is a sacrifice, I don't see why it wouldn't be a sacrifice.

Well, no, I do see how you could consider it as not being one, but I disagree. *shrugs*

[Medusa]

Re: Controversy Over Blood Sacrifice

What are your opinions about blood sacrifice and animal sacrifice? Taken from this thread and moved here in an effort not to derail the thread. I would like to hear what everyone's opinions are on the matter as well as justifications for or against. I made the thread in ceremonies and practices but I fully expect for this to be more of a debate. If a mod wishes to move the pertinent posts from the other thread they may but it's probably not necessary.

*I forgot to capitalize the O in the title. Could someone fix that please?

I think if YOU want something bad enough then YOU sacrifice yourself or your blood or whatever part of you, you think is an even exchange. That's the only fair thing to do. Don't have anyone or anything else doing your dirty work.

[monsno_leedra]

Re: Controversy Over Blood Sacrifice

While I see your point, I think that the same consideration can go into an action you do once as one you do multiple times. Certainly doing it often provides more chances for that reflection, which could cause it to mean more, but I don't think that discounts a single-instance donation from being a sacrifice. In both scenarios, you are giving up your blood, and if you do so with the intent that it is a sacrifice, I don't see why it wouldn't be a sacrifice.

Well, no, I do see how you could consider it as not being one, but I disagree. *shrugs*

I can see your point. For me personally I think I have to add the disclaimer that the gods / goddesses I honor and worship do not really see singular acts as a sacrifice I suppose. That is much of the back philosophy that colors my perceptions of how I view sacrifice I suppose. About the only time I see singular acts is as significant junctures such as passing from childhood to adulthood. Consider for Artemis for instance it was the sacrificing of all the items of childhood at one sanctuary or blooding by whipping at another while for Hecate / Hekate is was monthly offerings of meals or full sacrifice of the total animal in other instances. So even in its singular aspect it is still larger than life and emcompasses a lot of fore though and consideration.

But perhaps that is the criteria we judge sacrifice against, how the god / goddess views it.

[Kahlenda]

Re: Controversy Over Blood Sacrifice

My criteria for sacrifice is normally that it must be a considered** and willingly chosen act.

Couldnt have put it better myself and just on a side note, i don't think i've read that one? was it jade?

[MaskedOne]

Re: Controversy Over Blood Sacrifice

Vision of the Future

Jade uses a beckon call to remote crash her ship into the landing bay of a tower on Niruaun and prevents a set of Thrawn loyalists from getting in touch with Bastion. The act places the well being of the galaxy over her own interests and makes her a Jedi in the eyes of the Force.

[Kahlenda]

Re: Controversy Over Blood Sacrifice

Vision of the Future

Jade uses a beckon call to remote crash her ship into the landing bay of a tower on Niruaun and prevents a set of Thrawn loyalists from getting in touch with Bastion. The act places the well being of the galaxy over her own interests and makes her a Jedi in the eyes of the Force.

was gunna say it sounded like jade. and yeah that would explain some othe the things i couldnt work out about her in the later books haha. i always wondered why after everything that happens in the earlier books luke would choose to marry her. whooops spoilers sorry people

[MaskedOne]

Re: Controversy Over Blood Sacrifice

Best advice there is to read Spectre of the Past and Vision of the Future.

[wildcat]

Re: Controversy Over Blood Sacrifice

This was an interesting thread to read.

I wouldn't condemn others for using animal sacrifices if that's what they truly feel is right for their path. But it's not something that I would ever do. Like was mentioned by a few in this thread, I don't believe in sacrificing an animal for a god when they didn't express any choice to be sacrificed. With my practice, a sacrifice, to me, is something that I'm giving up, that I consider to be a significant sacrifice in my life. I am making the conscious choice, in honour of the gods, to give up something significant. If I were to kill an animal instead, I'm not giving up anything that is vital to me personally, rather the animal is doing so. I didn't have to do or give anything from myself. It's the chicken or pig that was the one that gave up something precious - their life. Dragging a chicken who is screaming and fighting for their life over to get their throat slashed for a god is not what I consider to be a good sacrifice, and has nothing to do with me actually sacrificing. Like I read someone say, it's the animal that's doing the dirty work for you.

One of the nameless gods I commune with, embodies the essence of the survival instinct. If an animal must die or live, it should be for a natural purpose. For food for example. The instinct to survive is a sacred urge in all of us, it's what keeps life continuing on, the strongest instinct we have. And for me to take away the most primal need and urge that a living being has, just because I decided that I wanted to give it to a god, just doesn't feel right. When I commune with my gods, I have a very strong gut feeling that when I give offerings and make sacrifices, my gods are demanding it of me. When I pray to my gods for some sort of favour, I never approach empty-handed, I'm expected to give an offering or sacrifice in return. Something that is vital to my life, something that has immense meaning and impact on my life. I rarely involve blood sacrifices in my practices, though if I feel strongly about it, I do. But it's my blood, my pain, no one else's, that I offer to my gods.

I can understand the reasons that others might engage in animal sacrifices to their gods, so I don't condemn anyone. Especially if they are recons and want to be as accurate as possible to the old ways of worship and sacrifice. But obviously I'm not a recon, and I make my decisions based on the gut feelings I get when I commune with gods, which is how I humbly come to realize what they are personally expecting of me.

[Sonku]

Re: Controversy Over Blood Sacrifice

Comeone people what animal sacrifices has to be an issue!! It is very common practice and the fact that people don't have to ask for permission while grazing those animals, they don't ask for permission to slaughter them. We do sacrifices of all kinds and I don't have any problem with that because I also enjoy being in any ceremonial involving animal sacrifice.

[alternatingSelves]

Re: Controversy Over Blood Sacrifice

in my view? I'm against animal sacrifice because I believe harming an animal is never okay. although I do recognize the hypocracy in me saying that and being a meat eater. but there are a lot of other things that can be given to gods that aren't living. plants, fire, oils, spices, words. I believe that faith should not involve bloodshed and honouring a god should not involve death. that said, I won't insult or argue with someone who believes otherwise. that is just my take.