Controversy Over Blood Sacrifice

[Raphaeline]

Re: Controversy over Blood Sacrifice

General question on the current topic: Why would deities that once required human sacrifice change to animal sacrifice along with the laws of modern times? Would deities care about human created law and send out telepathic messages for a change in their sacrifice needs?

If anything, I would expect an animal sacrifice to mean more now than before - perhaps meat, the end product, is easier to obtain than it was in the past in most places, but it requires far more effort than it ever has (and that it should, as far as I'm concerned) to actually be involved in the slaughter and butchering of your meal. At least in America, our meat is almost entirely factory farmed. We never even see the hundred of cows that came together to make our hamburger. In order to make an animal sacrifice in most places in this country, you have a lot of work ahead of you, and it's expensive as hell.

[monsno_leedra]

Re: Controversy over Blood Sacrifice

True but i still think a hunt is compleatly different from a sacrifice because ..

I think where we might be missing is that to me the totality of the hunt is part of the sacrifice. It's the rituals and ceremonies that precede it, the stuff that occurs during it and the rituals, ceremonies and such that are performed after it. As such purification and right mind are as much part of the sacrifice as the spilling of blood and taking of the life. It's not just a single act but the totality of all of it combined that makes it a sacrifice.

[thalassa]

Re: Controversy over Blood Sacrifice

What is apt to be a grossly unpopular opinion:

The gods living in my head do not want blood.

If they did, I'd have a psychiatrist drive them out.

^While I totally agree with this idea on a personal level...I think that whatever consenting adults decide to do for their own religious purposes to themselves is their own business. And, if it is something they are doing with someone else, provided they are a consenting adult and the whatever will not be fatal, disabling, or grossly disfiguring, that its also none of my business.

As far as animal sacrifice goes, I'm sort of with Rafe. Americans (actually, I would say most urban dwellers in a Western influenced culture) are woefully ignorant of where their meat comes from, and I'm pretty sure that the intimacy of slaughtering it themselves would be mindblowingly illuminating for any number of people. While I personally find it useless in my own path, my issues mostly have to do with how the animal is treated before hand, how the animal is slaughtered during the rite, and whether or not the animal is consumed afterwards. If the animals is treated well, killed humanely, eaten afterwards, with a sanitary disposal of the remains after all of that, I'm down. But if not, well...I'm not cool with half starving a goat, torturing it and leaving rotting carcasses in public parks (not saying this happens, I'm just making an example).

[Juniper]

Re: Controversy Over Blood Sacrifice

Well, I do apologize if this derails the topic a bit but honestly, more than half the pages of this thread reminded me of this scene in Portlandia.

[monsno_leedra]

Re: Controversy Over Blood Sacrifice

Well, I do apologize if this derails the topic a bit but honestly, more than half the pages of this thread reminded me of this scene in Portlandia.

That does remind me of parts of this conversation. Thanks for the link as I have actually never seen that movie so it was sort of an interesting peek.

Edited to remove video link

[egregor]

Re: Controversy Over Blood Sacrifice

If you get the blood from a willing "donor", or from yourself, and you know what the fuck your doing, I don't see the harm. Hell, I added some of mine to a dish of water just last night, and let it sit under the waning moon and then, the rain. Came out prettier than ever.

[Louisvillian]

Re: Controversy Over Blood Sacrifice

I don't have any problem with live animal or blood sacrifices. It doesn't specifically feature into my path, but that is no reason to condemn others from doing so. Different path, different practices.
And really, I'm not particularly against the use of (voluntary) blood sacrifice in my path, either. Wicca lacks a default position on it (unlike live animal sacrifice, which it is averse to). Blood is a powerful, powerful thing, though, and should not be used lightly.

[Kahlenda]

Re: Controversy Over Blood Sacrifice

So i've just thought of an interesting ppoint to make here. would you consider donating blood to be a blood sacrifice?

[monsno_leedra]

Re: Controversy Over Blood Sacrifice

So i've just thought of an interesting ppoint to make here. would you consider donating blood to be a blood sacrifice?

Personally I'd say yes. Though I would also add that I believe it would also have to be a routine thing vice a one time event. Nor do I think it would be a sacrifice if one gains a profit from it such as selling it to a blood bank. Unfortunately I myself can not give blood according to the latest info I have because I was exposed potentially to Mad Cow disease from being stationed in Europe in the late 70's and early 80's.

[thalassa]

Re: Controversy Over Blood Sacrifice

Personally I'd say yes. Though I would also add that I believe it would also have to be a routine thing vice a one time event. Nor do I think it would be a sacrifice if one gains a profit from it such as selling it to a blood bank.

I agree with this.


ETA...in my post before, too...I didn't mention that while blood sacrifice is purposeless in my practice, that the use of blood is not. I have used blood (my own, and that of another) in ritual...just not for the purpose of a sacrifice.

[Kahlenda]

Re: Controversy Over Blood Sacrifice

Personally I'd say yes. Though I would also add that I believe it would also have to be a routine thing vice a one time event. Nor do I think it would be a sacrifice if one gains a profit from it such as selling it to a blood bank..

Thats why i said donating haha. but yeah i get what you mean. now this is a reason i don't give blood and i know it's something i get alot of stick for and people argue with me over it but i think on my being fair side that it also says on my medical not to give me blood either.

[monsno_leedra]

Re: Controversy Over Blood Sacrifice

Thats why i said donating haha. but yeah i get what you mean. now this is a reason i don't give blood and i know it's something i get alot of stick for and people argue with me over it but i think on my being fair side that it also says on my medical not to give me blood either.

Main reason I added the not profit is because I've run across that before where the person argued that the fact they got money from it was beside the point of them giving blood at the time. That and comparisons to how people get paid for their spiritual gifts being used and the giving of blood was from a spiritual influence and manifested act.

[Erika]

Re: Controversy Over Blood Sacrifice

Personally I'd say yes. Though I would also add that I believe it would also have to be a routine thing vice a one time event.

I disagree here: I think that even if it's a rare/occasional/one-time thing, giving up your blood, donating it, counts as a blood sacrifice. I can see the perspective where doing so regularly would have more impact, but I don't think repetition is required for it to count. Either way, it's still a sacrifice.

In response to the original question, I think blood sacrifice if fine, so long as it's something given freely. I personally wouldn't use my own menstrual blood, but that's more of a personal choice than a 'no-one should do it!' mindset.

Animal sacrifice I am, admittedly, pickier about. Most of what it boils down to in my opinion is whether or not the animal is treated humanely. If it is - go for it. If it's not... I'm probably not going to participate. I'm not sure if I count hunting as animal sacrifice, myself, but I haven't felt the need to use animal sacrifice in my practice, so it hasn't really come up.

[monsno_leedra]

Re: Controversy Over Blood Sacrifice

I disagree here: I think that even if it's a rare/occasional/one-time thing, giving up your blood, donating it, counts as a blood sacrifice. I can see the perspective where doing so regularly would have more impact, but I don't think repetition is required for it to count. Either way, it's still a sacrifice.

From my perspective to do something once is simply chance and really requires no self reflection, self analysis, or ethical / moral consideration to do it twice or more is to be aware of the pain, potential and personal commitment to it. Self reflection allows for consideration of ones weaknesses, fears, local physical & mental pain and discomfort and the time required and the commitment to make it to the place. It also suggests, IMHO, a deeper consideration of why one is doing a thing.

[Rae'ya]

Re: Controversy Over Blood Sacrifice

So i've just thought of an interesting point to make here. would you consider donating blood to be a blood sacrifice?

That's a good question. I think it depends on your definition of sacrifice, and why you are doing it. Donating blood (or plasma, which is usually actually needed more than blood in most places, and is a bit harder and more painful to give) is something that can be a very flippant choice for some, or a very intense decision for others. The spirit in which it is given really makes the difference here, I think. I count sacrifices as subjective... if its too easy to do then it's not really a sacrifice in my mind. But if you consider your blood sacred or particularly important to you, if the thought of a huge needle freaks you out, if it's hard for you to get down there, and if you are doing it with the mentality that you are giving up a part of yourself in order to potentially save someone's life, then yes, I think it's a sacrifice.

And of course we have to remember that sacrifices are not always for spiritual purposes.

Main reason I added the not profit is because I've run across that before where the person argued that the fact they got money from it was beside the point of them giving blood at the time. That and comparisons to how people get paid for their spiritual gifts being used and the giving of blood was from a spiritual influence and manifested act.

Personally, I think that if you get paid for it, it nullifies the 'sacrifice' part. To me, the point of donating blood is to 'donate' it, because blood banks need it and you could be saving a person's life. If you go into it with the express desire to be paid for your blood then I don't think it would count as a sacrifice.

That's not to say that I disagree with people wishing to be paid for their blood... I just think that it's one of those factors that wound exclude it from the 'sacrifice' category.

Also, being paid for giving blood is somewhat of an alien concept to me, as I don't think we do that in Australia. The Red Cross is the only blood and plasma collection organisation that I know of and they don't pay for it. Australians are encouraged to donate blood and plasma. I don't know that we have an option to be paid for it.

From my perspective to do something once is simply chance and really requires no self reflection, self analysis, or ethical / moral consideration to do it twice or more is to be aware of the pain, potential and personal commitment to it. Self reflection allows for consideration of ones weaknesses, fears, local physical & mental pain and discomfort and the time required and the commitment to make it to the place. It also suggests, IMHO, a deeper consideration of why one is doing a thing.

I don't think I agree with this, because I think that doing something once is not automatically chance. I think that for some people, all of that reflection, self analysis and moral consideration can be just as intense the first time as it is the second or third or tenth times. And when it comes to something like donating blood, I think the first time is probably going to be the hardest and most intense choice for most people. I agree that at the second and subsequent times one has a greater awareness of what is actually involved, and therefore can account for things that may not have been considered in the initial choice. But lets also consider that the first time for anything often carries with it a sense of apprehension and the unknown, which is then lost upon subsequent repetitions.