Communism!

[DanieMarie]

Re: Communism!

Well more power to you. I for one thank the Gods that I live in the USA where we don't have such taxation. A place where, in theory, I have the ability to make my life as good as I want it to be with my own two hands. Wealth redistribution is a fallacy and thank the Gods it is. And without capital employees work at McDonalds for the rest of their lives with no nominal expectation to move up.

That's such a joke. Working at McDonalds is unpleasant and boring as hell. It is repetitive, dull, you have to deal with horrible people for a lot of the day, you're on your feet all the time, and you leave with greasy pores and smelling like fries. I haven't met many McDonalds employees under the management level who actually wanted to keep working there (myself included...I worked there when I was 17). Everyone I know personally left, and it wasn't -just- about the money. It was about the fact that it's a terrible job and they all wanted to jobs that aren't terrible.

The same can be said for most retail and customer service jobs. Totally horrible. Most people I've known at designer stores (which pay better than a lot of desk jobs) still left, because working retail blows.

It's the same thing with being unemployed and welfare. Being unemployed is boring. Most people don't want to be unemployed, but some choose welfare over work when the pay isn't worth the loss of total benefits (here, you don't just lose your welfare benefits, but also the associated benefits such as free health insurance, reduced public transport costs, reduced entry to almost everything, child benefits, etc....if your new job pays less than 1,000 Euro per month, it's probably not worth it). A lot of people believe stuff like this, but no one I know who has actually worked for welfare services (and I actually know several) believes this myth.

[Taulmaril]

Re: Communism!

"That's such a joke. Working at McDonalds is unpleasant and boring as hell. It is repetitive, dull, you have to deal with horrible people for a lot of the day"

That's kind of the point.

[thalassa]

Re: Communism!

Well more power to you. I for one thank the Gods that I live in the USA where we don't have such taxation. A place where, in theory, I have the ability to make my life as good as I want it to be with my own two hands. Wealth redistribution is a fallacy and thank the Gods it is. And without capital employees work at McDonalds for the rest of their lives with no nominal expectation to move up.

When this country was still great, we did have such taxation

Progressive taxation paid for the creation of science and industruy that established a middle class and the upward mobility of thousands.

"It might help if this mythical company paid its fair share in taxes for a start."

What would you say is "fair share" in taxes for my million dollar company? 50% sound good to you? Has anyone ever wondered why so many companies from the US relocate to countries with lower tax rates? It makes sense to me that they do this in order to maximize their profits. Why do people go into business in the first place? It is to make money. That is the bottom line. With that said there are many companies who do indeed make money and treat their employees well and to those companies I say good on them.

Companies from the US locate to countries with lower tax rates because we allow them to continue to do business as usual in this country once they do so...when people recind their citizenship we tax the crap out of them. And even when they don't, large corporations already pay next to nothing in taxes because of overseas holdings anyhow.

[Medusa]

Re: Communism!

California's pay wage increase goes into affect today! I get a bump in pay even though I make more than minimum wage.

Yay Oppression!

[Tylluan Penry]

Re: Communism!

Well more power to you. I for one thank the Gods that I live in the USA where we don't have such taxation. A place where, in theory, I have the ability to make my life as good as I want it to be with my own two hands. Wealth redistribution is a fallacy and thank the Gods it is. And without capital employees work at McDonalds for the rest of their lives with no nominal expectation to move up.

And when your own two hands fail, through no fault of your own? A problem at work maybe (no, no, that couldn't possibly happen, could it? ) a car crash, a slip on the stairs, a virus?

[DanieMarie]

Re: Communism!

I love it when people talk about other developed countries as if people can't make a living with their own two hands. Yes, we have stronger social states and higher taxes, but people can still pull themselves up by the bootstraps, make a living, and even build some wealth. It's not like the government takes -all- of your money. If you have a high income, you're still keeping a pretty sizeable chunk of money for yourself, to save, invest in stocks or real estate, or to fund a business. Basically, we get to have our cake and eat it too.

I mean, the very idea of somewhere like Germany not having any business or business investment is kind of hilarious. Germany is one of the world's largest economies, and exports make up a good chunk of the economy. We may have high taxes and a large social safety net, but we definitely have a lot of private business.

[B. de Corbin]

Re: Communism!

LOL - there is a war between the rich and poor, but the rich have all the guns & ammo...

Couldda sworn this a thread about communism, though.

[DanieMarie]

Re: Communism!

Meh, it's hard to get into a conversation about communism without discussing wealth, the social state, etc.

[thalassa]

Re: Communism!

LOL - there is a war between the rich and poor, but the rich have all the guns & ammo...

Couldda sworn this a thread about communism, though.

Im not a fan of communism. But I'm not a fan of capitalism either.

In biology, there's, a thing called hybrid vigor.

Also, the idea that fixed states are imagimary and that (outside of a dichotomous key) that most thimg exist on a continuum.

I think this one placw where Western Christianized nations fail-we are conditioned to be heaven-or-hell thinkers...we default to binary. The world is not a binary. Our systems or not a binary. Reducing them to such will continue to be our downfall.

[B. de Corbin]

Re: Communism!

I think this one placw where Western Christianized nations fail-we are conditioned to be heaven-or-hell thinkers...we default to binary. The world is not a binary. Our systems or not a binary. Reducing them to such will continue to be our downfall.

I'm going to suggest that this is linked to another problem that bothers me - theoretical thinking vs. realism.

Communism, socialism, capitalism... These are all theoretical constructs, and they all look marvey on paper - or terrible, depending on the oaf who writes the paper.

Reality, though, is messy, and never ultra-perfect pretty on paper - not without photoshop. Nor is it ever "pure." It requires that "hybrid vigor" you mentioned.

The hugely freakish thing is not that people think by theory rather that reality, it is that, the more obvious it becomes that the pure theory doesn't function well, the greater the theoretician argues that it needs further purification.

And hence, the horror of binary stupidity.

"There comes a time when the Alchemist must burn his books, lest they break his heart."

[Spiny Norman]

Re: Communism!

And when your own two hands fail, through no fault of your own? A problem at work maybe (no, no, that couldn't possibly happen, could it? ) a car crash, a slip on the stairs, a virus?

Indeed, and the welfare state is only a relatively recent development. Before that it would have been the poor house or destitution.

- - - Updated - - -

That's such a joke. Working at McDonalds is unpleasant and boring as hell. It is repetitive,

Yes, and most minimum-wage jobs are like that, it's why they are minimum-wage, only the desperate take them on.

[anunitu]

Re: Communism!

The US used to be you had two choices,Collage if you could afford it,and a trade school(Also known back in the day as junior collage) Trade school had the advantage that it could get you a job,from a short training program. City collage or trade school is dieing,and any now are commercial,like DeVry,but they have come under Gov looking into how legit they are.

For many collage is way to expensive to even consider...so the old standbys pop up,dealing drugs or just outright crime.

[Taulmaril]

Re: Communism!

"And when your own two hands fail, through no fault of your own? A problem at work maybe (no, no, that couldn't possibly happen, could it? ) a car crash, a slip on the stairs, a virus?"

As I am sure that you are aware, there are things that happen outside our control. If that happens then what do we do? Hopefully we have savings and things as a safety net. I do happen to support limited safety net from the taxes that we pay. It is part of why we pay taxes. What I do not support is tax payer funding for those unwilling to go to work and to make of their lives what they can. There has to be a happy medium.

- - - Updated - - -

"Couldda sworn this a thread about communism, though."

Oh it is. What do you think class warfare is?

[B. de Corbin]

Re: Communism!

Oh it is. What do you think class warfare is?

LMAO - "class warfare"? Is that polispeak for "life"?

[DragonsFriend]

Re: Communism!

Business owners and labor: The business comes into being first. When or if it expands to the point where employees are needed then the business provides jobs to those who wish to have them. As a working stiff I had an open contract with an employer. I had to provide a certain amount of work and the employer had to provide me with a certain wage. I could leave that contract at any time without reason. The employer is require to have cause to fire me or they pay the unemployment taxes that provide an interim income while I find work.
All things begin with inspiration. The guy or girl that comes up with the idea for a product or service that people want/need starts the business with his own blood, sweat, tears and money. Until that happens there is no business and no jobs. The business pays taxes unless all the money is spent to keep the business operating. All the people, including the business owner, pay taxes so all businesses contribute to the tax base. If a business incorporates then the corporation is owned by all the people who own stock in that business. If the business makes a net profit then it pays taxes on that profit, so do all the stockholders, employees, board of directors and the CEO. If you aren't happy in the job you are free to find another job or go into business for yourself. I started three businesses myself and one failed miserably. The second paid its own way but did not make me a living so I had to work to support myself while trying to stay in business. The third business was able to support itself, me and two employees. I was good to my employees because I needed good people that did good work. They were skilled craftsmen but I still had to work too. When they were on vacation I had to do my job and theirs to keep the business going.
I started that business and I created the jobs. You can believe what you want but labor is not what makes the business.