Within neopaganism does feminism exist at the expense of male neopagans?

[JamesByrne]

Re: Within neopaganism does feminism exist at the expense of male neopagans?

I saw this on facebook and thought Id look it up I was limited in the stats I could get. The police stats dont start til 05 and the terrorist death stats only go til 06 but taking those 2 years the police still potentially killed more UK citizens domestically then all the worlds terrorists did internationally. Its an exaggeration but its still not too far from the truth. In 05-06 72 people died domestically after police contact from 2000-6 terrorists killed 56 uk citizens internationally. Not that Id have much love for a peeler anyway but your police are feckin scumbags enough. THey dont need encouragement.

[Witcher]

Re: Within neopaganism does feminism exist at the expense of male neopagans?

Well you have to admit, the SS had really sexy uniforms...:devil:

"With homosexuality added it would be sparkling, perfect." -Jean Genet, referring to the Gestapo

But he was a total freak...

[Denarius]

Re: Within neopaganism does feminism exist at the expense of male neopagans?

Picture relevent:

[DrStrange]

Re: Within neopaganism does feminism exist at the expense of male neopagans?

"With homosexuality added it would be sparkling, perfect." -Jean Genet, referring to the Gestapo

But he was a total freak...

Nazi uniforms were designed by Hugo Boss, if I recall correctly.

[Medusa]

Re: Within neopaganism does feminism exist at the expense of male neopagans?

Nazi uniforms were designed by Hugo Boss, if I recall correctly.

Yes. Seriously they had smexy designs. Too bad they were assholes and all.
Fashion Fashion Work it baby

[ChainLightning]

Re: Within neopaganism does feminism exist at the expense of male neopagans?

Another feather in Godwin's cap.

RE: OP

I don't equate male-bashing to feminism, nor do I tie any matriarchy to male-bashing. I'm a male-basher, myself. Pretty f'n good at it, too, if I may say so. But I've also been exposed to similar commonalities in neo-pagan groups. There's a problem there, though, in that "neo-pagan" is superfluous. As is feminism being part of most pagan communities. There's a whole lot of correlation here that doesn't indicate any causation, whatsoever. Throwing in unnecessary adjectives, basically, to clarify where a bit of contempt comes from is rather disjointed, IMO.

After reading 8 pages in this thread (I had done so well avoiding it, too!) I have to say that my own observations on human nature and gender-specific behaviors have thus been reinforced. The culture, the society, the system that we are all born into is imperfect, unbalanced, and quite fickle. I find it hilarious that people take umbrage at others' cultural experiences. When their own are just as impeding to someone else's wishful thinking. What makes it even more comical, for me, is the misinterpretations of social awareness, cultural achievements and systematic balance, that are all quite unattainable.






/on-topic



And I can't help thinkin' of a Conga-line of butt-hurt individuals all, apparently, claiming to be thee victim of abuse. Queue up, form a line, and take a number - there's enough abuse for everyone!!! If I haven't gotten to you yet? I'll get to you, shortly!

/twisted humor

[JamesByrne]

Re: Within neopaganism does feminism exist at the expense of male neopagans?

Another feather in Godwin's cap.

RE: OP

I don't equate male-bashing to feminism, nor do I tie any matriarchy to male-bashing. I'm a male-basher, myself. Pretty f'n good at it, too, if I may say so.

Can you explain that a bit? Are you bragging youre good at fighting or are you saying you enjoy talking about how crap men are?

But I've also been exposed to similar commonalities in neo-pagan groups. There's a problem there, though, in that "neo-pagan" is superfluous. As is feminism being part of most pagan communities. There's a whole lot of correlation here that doesn't indicate any causation, whatsoever.

We speak different dialects of english can you explain a bit more, especially that last sentence. To me it might as well be chinese.

After reading 8 pages in this thread (I had done so well avoiding it, too!) I have to say that my own observations on human nature and gender-specific behaviors have thus been reinforced.

The gender roles in my culture are different to the gender roles in yours but Id agree that lots of people in the thread are very rooted in gender.

What makes it even more comical, for me, is the misinterpretations of social awareness, cultural achievements and systematic balance, that are all quite unattainable.

Would you say gender roles are innate and cant or shouldnt be changed?

[MaskedOne]

Re: Within neopaganism does feminism exist at the expense of male neopagans?

Chain routinely talks ill of humanity in general. Men happen to be included. I don't think he's getting into fistfights currently but I'm not sure.

[ChainLightning]

Re: Within neopaganism does feminism exist at the expense of male neopagans?

Sorry, James. I tend to forget the language barrier when I'm on about something else.

Can you explain that a bit? Are you bragging youre good at fighting or are you saying you enjoy talking about how crap men are?

I simply meant that I've had a lot of practice at talking crap, about men. Which, by the way, has its roots in getting to know so many women (virtually all of them, I've ever met or talked to) that had been abused or mistreated in some way.

That is NOT to say that I don't share in the fun of male chauvinistic jokes about brides wearing white, barefoot & pregnant, or horrid motorists.

Men are pigs and women are sex toys. Those are the "accepted" roles of each. And anyone that doesn't fit either of those "labels" is often referred to as an exception, an extremist, a feminazi, gay or some other attempt at making an exclusion, by the use of assigning a false minority.

We speak different dialects of english can you explain a bit more, especially that last sentence. To me it might as well be chinese.

Well, whether or not someone is pagan has nothing to do with those [mis]behaviors like male-bashing, etc. While it is true that in Paganism, or Neo-Paganism, if you prefer, there are traditions that are significantly matriarchal, there are matriarchies outside of Paganism in roughly the same proportion.

It comes down to: Get a bunch of like-minded women into a group and they'll undoubtedly talk about something they have in common. Crap men, for instance.

The gender roles in my culture are different to the gender roles in yours but Id agree that lots of people in the thread are very rooted in gender.

Yeah, it's kind of sad. I use the fact that I'm an Aquarius as an excuse, but I find all that gender-posturing highly annoying.

Would you say gender roles are innate and cant or shouldnt be changed?

IMO? Gender roles are a monstrous misappropriation of resources and a nightmarish disparity for self-aggrandizing half-wits to think they are better, just because of an accident of birth, basically, that dictated their gender.

In simpler terms, why bury the truth about PEOPLE, as a whole, under layer upon layer of gender-this, victim-of-that, retaliation and vindication?

I mean, seriously! I despise what the gender categories are, and have become, in terms of the roles they are supposed to play.

Summarily, "gender roles" shouldn't exist. IMO* (oops, forgot to clarify that!)

[shadow1982]

Re: Within neopaganism does feminism exist at the expense of male neopagans?

Within neopaganism does feminism exist at the expense of male neopagans?

This is stemming from my experiences over the last few months. Ive lived in the midlands where there was loads of folk traditions that neopagans would enjoy but no neopagan moots, when I moved back up towards the east coast I started getting back into moots. I hadnt noticed before so maybe Im more sensitive to it at the mo but a lot of man bashing goes on. Men dont want to be fathers, men arent commiitted to relationships, the patriarchy oppresses women all that stuff goes on while Im sitting there looking on. Im no vegitable I fight my corner but I get "oh youre the exception then"... is it that strong a tendancy in neopaganism or is it just the company Im in here?

Deliberately ignoring most of the posts in this thread.....

I don't think the views expressed by these particular woman have anything to do with either feminism or paganism. I think they have to do with these particular woman and their own personal views. I attend monthly moots in my own town and have never seen or participated in conversations about male bashing.

I consider myself both a pagan and a feminist and I do not see men as second class. I find the irony of generalizing about feminism within neopaganism on the basis of one group generalizing about men as a whole gender pretty amusing, if slightly offensive.

[Denarius]

Re: Within neopaganism does feminism exist at the expense of male neopagans?

I for one like gender roles, in that it's fun to subvert them.

[JamesByrne]

Re: Within neopaganism does feminism exist at the expense of male neopagans?

Well, whether or not someone is pagan has nothing to do with those [mis]behaviors like male-bashing, etc. While it is true that in Paganism, or Neo-Paganism, if you prefer, there are traditions that are significantly matriarchal, there are matriarchies outside of Paganism in roughly the same proportion.

Thanks for replying again Chain. Sorry I was really stumped. I limited my first post to neopaganism because discussing the stuff outside that context would be really fun but itd be pure flamebaiting to try it on a forum.

It comes down to: Get a bunch of like-minded women into a group and they'll undoubtedly talk about something they have in common. Crap men, for instance.

They have great lads as far as I can see Chain I suppose its just a thing women do when they get together now. Id rather not be around when it happens tbh.

Yeah, it's kind of sad. I use the fact that I'm an Aquarius as an excuse, but I find all that gender-posturing highly annoying.

I agree I look at it as a sign of igorance or to me a sign that the people are mindless and boring. I suppose I shouldnt hang out at that moot anymore hah.

- - - Updated - - -

I find the irony of generalizing about feminism within neopaganism on the basis of one group generalizing about men as a whole gender pretty amusing, if slightly offensive.

How so Shadow? I tried to restrict the context for feminism to avoid a flame war but personally I find it difficult to locate anything else that could possibly be justifying something so basically moronic. Id put it down to third waves influence as a brand on neopaganism. Riot grrrl etc making it popular for people to call themselves feminists without caring about or understanding feminism or its history. its nothing but an affectation. Maybe Im looking for an excuse or just winding myself up to go on a crusade against its influence. I have to deal with rows over LGBTQ people calling other coveners breeders and they apologise I dont see why pop feminists shouldnt apologise for doing things equally as stupid.

[shadow1982]

Re: Within neopaganism does feminism exist at the expense of male neopagans?

How so Shadow? I tried to restrict the context for feminism to avoid a flame war but personally I find it difficult to locate anything else that could possibly be justifying something so basically moronic. Id put it down to third waves influence as a brand on neopaganism. Riot grrrl etc making it popular for people to call themselves feminists without caring about or understanding feminism or its history. its nothing but an affectation. Maybe Im looking for an excuse or just winding myself up to go on a crusade against its influence. I have to deal with rows over LGBTQ people calling other coveners breeders and they apologise I dont see why pop feminists shouldnt apologise for doing things equally as stupid.

How so what? How do I find the irony amusing, or offensive? Or how do I think it's ironic in the first place?

Are you deliberately ignoring the first part of my post because it doesn't fit with your beliefs on feminism? I shall repeat it again for you. The conversation that you were part of has nothing to do with feminism, it is a group of woman who are bashing men for their own personal reasons. Their justification for it is because they have known crappy men, and are therefore making generalized statements about men as a whole. You, in turn, are making generalized statements about the whole of third-wave feminism and the neopagan movement on the basis of that one conversation. Is their generalization fair or correct? No. But then neither is yours, and you appear to either be incapable or unwilling to see it.

As a third-wave feminist I could choose to be offended by your statements, but honestly I just find your comments on it both amusing and a sign of your ignorance.

[JamesByrne]

Re: Within neopaganism does feminism exist at the expense of male neopagans?

As a third-wave feminist I could choose to be offended by your statements, but honestly I just find your comments on it both amusing and a sign of your ignorance.

Thats the second time you insluted me Shadow do you have an argument to make or are you just upset? Im not amused at you trolling me.
Do you want me to google feminst neopaganism for you so we can have the discussion? Here you go. Click Click

[shadow1982]

Re: Within neopaganism does feminism exist at the expense of male neopagans?

Thats the second time you insluted me Shadow do you have an argument to make or are you just upset? Im not amused at you trolling me.
Do you want me to google feminst neopaganism for you so we can have the discussion? Here you go. Click Click

I haven't insulted you once, never mind twice. And I am far from upset by what you have to say. I don't believe there is a discussion to have because you continue to deliberately ignore the fact that the conversation you were part of has NOTHING to do with feminist neopaganism.