Within neopaganism does feminism exist at the expense of male neopagans?

[JamesByrne]

Re: Within neopaganism does feminism exist at the expense of male neopagans?

If men can't handle a few women having some power in a coven or the Goddess getting special attention
then maybe they should consider ducking out of Paganism.

TBH Im thinking the same thing but put the different gender roles in our cultures aside and put yourself in my place Orchestrion would you find it acceptable that at moots the members bash men in terms of fatherhood, inability to be monogamous or commit to relationships and so on while you were sitting there? Personally I think if the genders were reversed itd be so socially unacceptable that most men would either intervene or leave the moot.

[orchestrion]

Re: Within neopaganism does feminism exist at the expense of male neopagans?

TBH Im thinking the same thing but put the different gender roles in our cultures aside and put yourself in my place Orchestrion would you find it acceptable that at moots the members bash men in terms of fatherhood, inability to be monogamous or commit to relationships and so on while you were sitting there? Personally I think if the genders were reversed itd be so socially unacceptable that most men would either intervene or leave the moot.

But that's human stupidity. Not feminine themes or feminism. That's being an asshole.
And that doesn't make the "cry for me because I'm a man" themes in this thread any less troubling.
Some ladies being mean to a guy at a moot doesn't mean that feminism is horrible and evil.

[JamesByrne]

Re: Within neopaganism does feminism exist at the expense of male neopagans?

What cry for me im a man themes are those?

[orchestrion]

Re: Within neopaganism does feminism exist at the expense of male neopagans?

Also you and others have said some pretty unabashedly misogynistic stuff in this thread and no one's chasing you off the site for it.

Go look at Dr. strange's last post. "White straight men are targets!!!!"
Also your whole story about the women at the moot is pretty much "baww i have a penis".
I like you but there's just. Only so much misogyny I'm okay with seeing in one place. .___.

[Simon Slade]

Re: Within neopaganism does feminism exist at the expense of male neopagans?

I understand what JamesByrne is saying. He's giving an example as to how feminism can be - and is - taken too far. It's not evidence for a global trend, but neither is it misogynistic.

Orchestrion, you're throwing around that word a lot. Not everything going on here is misogynistic. Not all of it is feminist. But you can be somewhere in the middle.

[orchestrion]

Re: Within neopaganism does feminism exist at the expense of male neopagans?

I used the word twice.
You don't think jokes about keeping women in the kitchen and pregnant, calling women little girls and claiming white straight men are actually a target are even slightly insensitive?
I wasn't claiming everything was misogynistic. I pointed out specific things that were. I'm not an idiot, thank you.
And if JamesByrne is talking about an isolated case it should stay a discussion about that one incident and not the broad question of whether feminism is harmful in the whole pagan community. One white man being called a slur doesn't raise the question "wow is this whole town racist against white people"?

[Simon Slade]

Re: Within neopaganism does feminism exist at the expense of male neopagans?

I used the word twice.
You don't think jokes about keeping women in the kitchen and pregnant, calling women little girls and claiming white straight men are actually a target are even slightly insensitive?

And if JamesByrne is talking about an isolated case it should stay a discussion about that one incident and not the broad question of whether feminism is harmful in the whole pagan community. One white man being called a slur doesn't raise the question "wow is this whole town racist against white people"?

You were making a generalization about how "The men in this thread are being a bit ridiculous..."

When James and myself haven't been ridiculous. He used anecdotal evidence to back up the hurt felt by some men. Dumuzi made a comment about race. And I preached a middle path. And Gallifrey has done the same. Witcher agreed with you. That leaves Dr Strange as the only man saying inherently ridiculous or misogynistic things.

I was just advising you to calm down a little bit before you start pointing fingers at people who really haven't stepped out of line.

[orchestrion]

Re: Within neopaganism does feminism exist at the expense of male neopagans?

Am i supposed to calculate the exact number of men being ridiculous?
I'm typing on an iphone. I'm sorry not everything is perfectly articulated on my part. And witcher agreed with the post you're complaining about. That aside I would disagree that Dr Strange is the only one saying anything wrong.
Don't tell me to calm down. I'm calm. That's obnoxious and patronizing.

[Witcher]

Re: Within neopaganism does feminism exist at the expense of male neopagans?

This reminds me so much of Christians on the internet who bitch and moan about how mean Atheists are, especially the vociferous New Atheists like Dawkins and then extrapolate that to create some idea that Christianity is a persecuted religion even with the privileges it has in our society. Yes, there are going to be a few people who overstep their bounds and say rude things. I can actually agree with the OP's point about fatherhood. I hate it when men are portrayed as bad fathers and television does this constantly. Think about how most sitcoms show a take-no-prisoners and solve-everything mother teamed up with an oafish husband who can't talk to his kids about anything. I do see common ground. But to make it out like there is some sort of gynocracy of amazons in Paganism is going too far. The majority of contemporary Pagan movements are very much into ideas of the feminine divine, women's place in religion, etc. It's part and parcel of the movement.

I think the OP had a bad experience with a religious group. That does not mean the entire religion is like that. I think that's what most people on here are trying to say anyway.

[orchestrion]

Re: Within neopaganism does feminism exist at the expense of male neopagans?

This reminds me so much of Christians on the internet who bitch and moan about how mean Atheists are, especially the vociferous New Atheists like Dawkins and then extrapolate that to create some idea that Christianity is a persecuted religion even with the privileges it has in our society. Yes, there are going to be a few people who overstep their bounds and say rude things. I can actually agree with the OP's point about fatherhood. I hate it when men are portrayed as bad fathers and television does this constantly. Think about how most sitcoms show a take-no-prisoners and solve-everything mother teamed up with an oafish husband who can't talk to his kids about anything. I do see common ground. But to make it out like there is some sort of gynocracy of amazons in Paganism is going too far. The majority of contemporary Pagan movements are very much into ideas of the feminine divine, women's place in religion, etc. It's part and parcel of the movement.

I think the OP had a bad experience with a religious group. That does not mean the entire religion is like that. I think that's what most people on here are trying to say anyway.

Exactly.
This thread keeps getting derailed by bullshit.
This is the whole point.
I don't agree necessarily with all of it but that last paragraph is key.

[Gardenia]

Re: Within neopaganism does feminism exist at the expense of male neopagans?

gynocracy of amazons

Oh man, I am so making a new pagan tradition and using this. Or band. Whichever.

[Witcher]

Re: Within neopaganism does feminism exist at the expense of male neopagans?

Oh man, I am so making a new pagan tradition and using this. Or band. Whichever.

Then there could be a rival all-male phallocentric pseudo-religion counterpart. You know, like NASCAR.

[Medusa]

Re: Within neopaganism does feminism exist at the expense of male neopagans?

Everyone who has been oppressed in their lifetime, raise your hand.

Everyone huh?

Now quite your bitching.

[the_winds_of_mayhem]

Re: Within neopaganism does feminism exist at the expense of male neopagans?

I feel a lot of women in paganism try to degrade or belittle us guys which is why i worship solo and alone.

[DrStrange]

Re: Within neopaganism does feminism exist at the expense of male neopagans?

The men in this thread are being a bit ridiculous...
"Two women messed up in the British police force so obviously men are oppressed".
And this has what to do with most religions being male centric? This has what to do with feminine themes in religion?
As someone whose parents are both former cops i won't even get into my issues with the assumption that female officers are somehow privileged.

Perhaps not in American police forces, but the British police services(we're no longer even allowed to call them Forces because it's too "aggressive")are so pussy-whipped they spent three days running away while sub-humans raped, burned and pillaged every major city in England. Our police are, frankly, pathetic and I predict that the Olympics will go South in a spectacular fashion: terrorism or violent crime.

The riots kicked off because a criminal was shot dead by the police. I have absolutely no problem with that. However, within hours of the shooting it became clear that tensions were running high; large groups of people behaving in an aggressive manner, a demonstration outside the local police station etc. The senior officer in charge of the area in which the shooting took place was due to fly out on holiday that same night. In spite of reports of violence and unrest spreading in her operational area, she refused to change her holiday plans. More importantly, she made no attempt to put extra officers on the streets or prepare in anyway for what, by that time, the dogs in the street knew was coming. By the time night fell and people were being burned form their homes and businesses, this so-called officer was flying to Spain.

During three days and nights when the police effectively lost control of England, this woman sat on her fat arse on a beach. She did not cut her holiday short and fly back to help her fellow officers.

Of course, I do not lay the blame of the 2011 Riots all on her; the entire senior level of the British police proved themselves to be cowards and morons, whatever their gender. But I'm fairly certain a male officer who effectively abandoned his post during the worst violence and destruction for a generation would have some very serious questions to answer when he returned. The female officer was actually promoted after the Riots.:wtf:

In the British "police" - and I use that word in it's loosest possible sense - women and Gays are privileged. This is not some gender conspiracy theory: it's official policy. The Assistant Chief Constable of my local service made a public statement in which he admitted that he places a higher priority on "promoting equality" than tackling crime. I believe him, because I've never met a female officer in my local force who gives the impression of being recruited on merit alone. Without exception, they appear stupid, lazy and with a massively inflated opinion of their own status and talent. Several times I've had to slap them down by reminding them that as a law abiding taxpayer, I pay their wages. So until I break the law the only response I want to hear from a police officer to my command to jump is, "How high, sir?"

You Septics are lucky; your Cops, in contrast to ours, seem to be issued with a functioning spine during their basic training.