Cultural insult? Semi-naked ladies and feathers

[Caelia]

Re: Cultural insult? Semi-naked ladies and feathers

That is what the arguments have amounted to.

And interestingly enough, even though I've pointed it out twice, people keep ignoring my point about what is "sexualized" and "fetishized" is in the eye of the beholder; that what offends one person isn't even a blip on the radar to another.

Please show me where that's been said as "I don't like it" as much as "said group doesn't like it". It's also been pointed out, sometimes with sources, that there's a history of this image as a motif that's sexually commodifiying in addition to how when a group of people don't consent it's dehumanizing and nonconsentual which makes it inappropriate.

[Vigdisdotter]

Re: Cultural insult? Semi-naked ladies and feathers

Please show me where that's been said as "I don't like it" as much as "said group doesn't like it".

Every post complaining about it on this thread.

You aren't REALLY thinking that any give poster has the right to speak for an entire ethnic group, are you?

And if you're talking about special interest groups, they don't represent the whole either. If they did, man would woman in Canada be hopped, since the Real Women would be telling us how we can and can't behave.

[Caelia]

Re: Cultural insult? Semi-naked ladies and feathers

Every post complaining about it on this thread.

You aren't REALLY thinking that any give poster has the right to speak for an entire ethnic group, are you?

And if you're talking about special interest groups, they don't represent the whole either. If they did, man would woman in Canada be hopped, since the Real Women would be telling us how we can and can't behave.

No one has said that. No one has spoken for a group. People posting in this thread have given information based on sources mostly from those groups. You say "every post". Please pick one then and highlight it and explain yourself.

[Vigdisdotter]

Re: Cultural insult? Semi-naked ladies and feathers

No one has said that. No one has spoken for a group. People posting in this thread have given information based on sources mostly from those groups. You say "every post". Please pick one then and highlight it and explain yourself.

Then my point stands. They are basing their complains on their personal dislikes. In EVERY post. And no, I'm not going to highlight all the examples in all the posts because I'd just be highlighting all that's posted.

As for those "sources" a) you clearly missed my point about groups not speaking for everyone and b) my comment about people needing to get a hobby includes those groups.

I find it interesting how people will tout that which supports their preferred stance but outright ignore someone saying "I don't feel/see it that way".

[Caelia]

Re: Cultural insult? Semi-naked ladies and feathers

Then my point stands. They are basing their complains on their personal dislikes. In EVERY post. And no, I'm not going to highlight all the examples in all the posts because I'd just be highlighting all that's posted.

So pointing to sources where a group of people express disdain for abuse of their culture means that people are speaking on behalf of others? That's not speaking for anyone. That doesn't prove your point unless your point is you use circular reasoning.

As for those "sources" a) you clearly missed my point about groups not speaking for everyone and b) my comment about people needing to get a hobby includes those groups.

I find it interesting how people will tout that which supports their preferred stance but outright ignore someone saying "I don't feel/see it that way".

See above response.

[Juniper]

Re: Cultural insult? Semi-naked ladies and feathers

I think it's time to take a deep breath. Things are getting a bit too heated and defensive now.

[Vigdisdotter]

Re: Cultural insult? Semi-naked ladies and feathers

So pointing to sources where a group of people express disdain for abuse of their culture means that people are speaking on behalf of others?

Yes, since the cry is for the entire group rather then for themselves. For cultural appropriate to happen it has to affect the CULTURE which is made up it's members, ie. the entire group.

[Caelia]

Re: Cultural insult? Semi-naked ladies and feathers

Yes, since the cry is for the entire group rather then for themselves. For cultural appropriate to happen it has to affect the CULTURE which is made up it's members, ie. the entire group.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moving_the_goalposts#As_logical_fallacy

I'm just going to follow a cue from xkcd:

http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/argument_victory.png

[Medusa]

Re: Cultural insult? Semi-naked ladies and feathers

We should be more concerned about the fact that most of the VS models are skin and bones. Ladies, where are your priorities?

[Ophidia]

Re: Cultural insult? Semi-naked ladies and feathers

Not when it amounts to "because I don't like it".

So what you're saying here is that unless a person is 'one of them' they have no right to say they agree with someone, or can understand someone's point of view, or support someone's cause?

I'm not Native American (except for a few relatives a few hundred years ago), I'm not black, I'm not attempting to speak for anyone. I read an article, I saw a t.v. program, I formed an opinion and I came here and engaged in a discussion about it. I'm not trying to invalidate the opinions of people who think Native people over-reacted, and I'm not calling the nay-sayers whiny cry-babies, or trying to win anyone over to 'my side', either. I'm not telling anyone they're wrong for wanting to see sexy women in fetish garb. All I'm doing is agreeing with people who found the Victoria's Secret model's outfit offensive. I can understand where they're coming from, and I can understand that argument on different levels. I can also see that cultural insensitivity and racism can affect more than just the target group. And I don't believe that my agreement with the offended people invalidates their anger or indignation in any way.

[B. de Corbin]

Re: Cultural insult? Semi-naked ladies and feathers

We should be more concerned about the fact that most of the VS models are skin and bones. Ladies, where are your priorities?

Like this?
Ehttp://3.bp.blogspot.com/-1Zo9_GlNwi4/TicHJulrN0I/AAAAAAAAFqY/VU4T0sqaS1I/s1600/skinny-Cqq
Disgusting...W

Disgusting... Like a corpse.

[Ophidia]

Re: Cultural insult? Semi-naked ladies and feathers

Like this?
Ehttp://3.bp.blogspot.com/-1Zo9_GlNwi4/TicHJulrN0I/AAAAAAAAFqY/VU4T0sqaS1I/s1600/skinny-Cqq
Disgusting...W

Disgusting... Like a corpse.

As a future corpse, I'm offended by that woman obviously trying to usurp my corpseness while still alive.

[B. de Corbin]

Re: Cultural insult? Semi-naked ladies and feathers

As a future corpse, I'm offended by that woman obviously trying to usurp my corpseness while still alive.

LMAO - have fun with that. I'm sure you are more fun while alive...

[volcaniclastic]

Re: Cultural insult? Semi-naked ladies and feathers

I stopped posting after my first post, because I don't debate, and I don't argue.

My cat likes cheese.

How does this pertain to the argument at hand? It doesn't. But it sounds about as ridiculous as y'all do, right now.

[Clive]

Re: Cultural insult? Semi-naked ladies and feathers

This is the kinda thing where I just go, Hey fellas, let's have a drink and play some video games. *shrug*