Wodenism - is it racist or is it the real deal?

[Gardenia]

Re: Wodenism - is it racist or is it the real deal?

What would an Indian (for example) have in common with Woden anyway?

I'm not, at all, Egyptian - yet for a great many years I worshiped Egyptian deities with no issues at all. They were the only deities I connected with. Currently I worship a Greek deity and, nope, I'm not Greek at all either... I think you'll find a fair number of pagans are not worshiping deities that they have a blood or direct cultural relation to. Meanwhile, if your hypothetical Indian were, say, living where Woden was originally worshiped? They might be interested in worshiping the deities of the land they live on, in having that local focus. When it comes to gods and religion, it's not always so cut and dry about who connects with what.

Not to mention that, as was said, the whole premise of the group is a bit flawed from a historical standpoint as well. I don't see much of a reason to stick to a group with racist ideas and beliefs if you're just interested in Germanic paganism - there are other groups out there who do that without the whole racism bit...

[Ula]

Re: Wodenism - is it racist or is it the real deal?

I am a practicing Heathen and find this extremely racist. Wodan or any god can call to anyone. The world is different now. I have never lived in Germany but found my faith while searching my roots. Does Wodan not take my offering cause I am in the US? Technology, shared information in books and the internet make many things accessible to people than ever before. Why wouldn't the gods take advantage of it?

[DanieMarie]

Re: Wodenism - is it racist or is it the real deal?

So very little is really known about Woden anyway, that it's a little presumptious to make such demands. The Anglo-Saxons are not - never were - a single homogenous group. They came from many different parts of northern Europe. And although there may be similarities with, say Odinn in Scandinavia, again we can't really say they are the same (just as it's not true to equate Diana with Artemis. There are similarities, yes, but there are differences too.)

If this 'Anglo-Saxon' group really want people to remain in their country of origin, they would probably be very surprised where they would end up....;-)

Definitely! Historically, most places have had a lot more movement and mingling than most nationalistic or "purist" type groups would want to admit.

Also, this page stinks not only of racism, but also of Naziism. Their icon on my Chrome tab even looks a bit like a swastika...

[B. de Corbin]

Re: Wodenism - is it racist or is it the real deal?

2. The protection of English Identity, English Culture and English Tradition and the revival of ancient Folk-Customs which were essential to the working of the Anglo-Saxon society.

I wonder how these "protections" would work. Will I not be allowed to have a spot of tea with my crumpets any more?

I also wonder at the meanings of: "English Identity," "English Culture," and "English Tradition." Is there only ONE of each of these vague things? And, if so, it would be a good idea to describe these clearly enough that they can be understood. I'm sure nobody wants to break the rules accidentally.

[Tylluan Penry]

Re: Wodenism - is it racist or is it the real deal?

I have now gone back and had a look at the website more thoroughly. It speaks as though 'England' has always been 'English.' Load of Bollocks. The Anglo-Saxons stole the land from earlier inhabitants, as did the Romans, the Belgae and a fair few others. The idea of providing land to Anglo-Saxon descendants smacks of Lebensraum to me.

If you would like a little more info on the Anglo-Saxons try the first chapter (free) here: http://www.thewolfenhowlepress.com/TMWOTASChapter1.html

[DanieMarie]

Re: Wodenism - is it racist or is it the real deal?

The idea of providing land to Anglo-Saxon descendants smacks of Lebensraum to me.

Glad I'm not the only one who thinks so

One thing about these sorts of purist groups that puzzles me is...what happens to those of us weirdos who are dual nationality? I know a lot of them in the UK!

[RiverSong]

Re: Wodenism - is it racist or is it the real deal?

Gah... I just got the heebie geebies from this thread. Yes, it is racist... and it actually is the same argument being made here in the US, about "preserving American values" which is often translated into, "if you're not white, get out!"... Yet, this country was stolen from Native Americans and Hispanics who first own these lands. It was really the English, Irish, and Africans (not by choice in that one! We were kidnapped and bought here as slaves!), who invaded and changed the original values of this country. It's just a negative vibe to have for any group that scream about excluding many... and worse when the reason to exclude comes down to skin color, gender, status, or creed. History has shown us too many times that groups like these are often, well, freakin' NUTS! ;^_^
And any Pagan group that excludes men is just wrong and sexist. I would avoid those too, like I would a plauge! o_o

[MaskedOne]

Re: Wodenism - is it racist or is it the real deal?

I have easily traced heritage going to two different continents and two different islands, I have extended family through marriage or adoption to two more continents and probably another island somewhere. I don't particularly care to let fringe elements dictate that my family divide itself on racial lines and I'm outright contemptous of fringe elements whose preferred policies would guarantee that I was never born. The organization in question can **** itself.

[B. de Corbin]

Re: Wodenism - is it racist or is it the real deal?

We oppose the multi-racial society where various different “communities” vie for a slice of the cake in a decaying and dying nation. This evil system has produced a hell-on-earth in which crime, violence, perversion and subversion are rife. This type of society has never worked – and never will! Multi-racialism or “multi-culturalism” is the basis of a one-world state – a World Dictatorship!

LMAO - this stuff keeps getting better and better. I'm going to keep reading...

I guess they didn't get the memo about crime rates, which follow the ups & downs of the economy much stronger than they follow racial mixing - which actually tends to bring the crime rates down.

It's when people are segregated that they most hate each other, not when they walk hand-in-hand.

[Hawkfeathers]

Re: Wodenism - is it racist or is it the real deal?

Young children have the whole race issue figured out. Many adults could learn a thing (or many) from watching a group of them play together. When I was a kid, it was all about whose turn it was to jump rope, or who had a new Barbie outfit, not anyone's skin color.

[Juniper]

Re: Wodenism - is it racist or is it the real deal?

I had a black cabbage patch doll when i was younger. Still have it, actually. It's one of my favorites.

[Moody Thursday]

Re: Wodenism - is it racist or is it the real deal?

Well, this thread has been interesting to read ^_^
On the topic of an all-women coven, I just wanted to add that I think you have to look at their reasons before making any judgments. Perhaps they are a skyclad coven. Then it could be an issue of simple modesty or even safety (especially if any of the members have ever been abused). Or maybe they just want to work with feminine energies sometimes, so they have that all-female coven. There's any number of reasons besides "we are being sexist and we hate men!"

[Wednesday]

Re: Wodenism - is it racist or is it the real deal?

Funnily enough, pre-christian heathens weren't a big, happy, brotherhood of whites. Didn't matter what color your skin was, if you weren't from the local tribe you were an outsider, black, white or purple.

In the legends, Woden didn't tell the Langobards and Vandals: "Come on, you're all white. Get along and fight the black people." He granted victory to those who won(manipulated) his favor. Had nothing to do with race loyalty.

[Maria de Luna]

Re: Wodenism - is it racist or is it the real deal?

Funnily enough, pre-christian heathens weren't a big, happy, brotherhood of whites. Didn't matter what color your skin was, if you weren't from the local tribe you were an outsider, black, white or purple.

In the legends, Woden didn't tell the Langobards and Vandals: "Come on, you're all white. Get along and fight the black people." He granted victory to those who won(manipulated) his favor. Had nothing to do with race loyalty.

People didn't need much difference to kill each other back then, and frankly still don't need much of a reason. race is often used as an excuse bacause it is the simplest thing to see, at a glance, as a difference between peoples.

The group presented by the article in the OP, does indeed appear to be quite rascist. They have every right to continue to be rascist, ay least I am fairly certain that they do, I don't live in the UK so I do not know for certain. I support your right to be rascist, but I don't have to support the rascism itself, and I suppose that is where I will leave it...

[Gardenia]

Re: Wodenism - is it racist or is it the real deal?

On the topic of an all-women coven, I just wanted to add that I think you have to look at their reasons before making any judgments. Perhaps they are a skyclad coven. Then it could be an issue of simple modesty or even safety (especially if any of the members have ever been abused). Or maybe they just want to work with feminine energies sometimes, so they have that all-female coven. There's any number of reasons besides "we are being sexist and we hate men!"

I'm inclined to agree. There are legitimate reasons why a group or workshop/event might be limited to all women (or even in some cases, all men). There are, of course, also some really awful reasons why people would want to do that. I think it's a lot harder to find legitimate reasons to restrict such things by race.

Frankly, I think it's a bit of a derailment anyway. Women/men only groups is a different topic, and I think there's already a few discussions floating around on just that. The question asked is, is this particular group racist. Doesn't matter what other groups may or may not be doing - we can look at the things this group teaches and believes in to find the answer, that yeah, it's pretty racist. So my question is, westwoden, do you not find this group racist? Without bringing other groups into it, focusing on just what this group is saying, why do you feel that way?